Tampa General: great success with COVID-19 treatment, reduces hospital stays

zantax · 2021-09-05T12:22:37.369Z

Yes they did alter it.

from https://cen.acs.org/pharmaceuticals/vaccines/tiny-tweak-behind-COVID-19/98/i38

Fortuitously, Graham and a former postdoc, Jason McLellan, devised a solution to this problem before the pandemic. Through a bit of structural biology and persistent protein engineering, McLellan discovered that adding two prolines—the most rigid of the 20 amino acids—to a key joint of a vaccine’s spike protein could stabilize the structure’s prefusion shape. This 2P mutation worked in preclinical studies of Graham and Moderna’s MERS vaccine, so they applied it to Moderna’s COVID-19 vaccine.
As Norbert Pardi, an mRNA vaccine scientist at the University of Pennsylvania, puts it, we’re “very lucky, actually,” that scientists worked out the 2P mutation for a MERS vaccine before the COVID-19 pandemic. “It wouldn’t be possible to go so fast with the Moderna vaccine otherwise.”

tzu · 2021-09-05T12:23:16.895Z

SottoVoce with the definitive final blow. In a more reasonable world, at least.

SottoVoce · 2021-09-05T13:55:35.998Z

zantax:

Yes they did alter it.

from https://cen.acs.org/pharmaceuticals/vaccines/tiny-tweak-behind-COVID-19/98/i38

Fortuitously, Graham and a former postdoc, Jason McLellan, devised a solution to this problem before the pandemic. Through a bit of structural biology and persistent protein engineering, McLellan discovered that adding two prolines—the most rigid of the 20 amino acids—to a key joint of a vaccine’s spike protein could stabilize the structure’s prefusion shape. This 2P mutation worked in preclinical studies of Graham and Moderna’s MERS vaccine, so they applied it to Moderna’s COVID-19 vaccine.
As Norbert Pardi, an mRNA vaccine scientist at the University of Pennsylvania, puts it, we’re “very lucky, actually,” that scientists worked out the 2P mutation for a MERS vaccine before the COVID-19 pandemic. “It wouldn’t be possible to go so fast with the Moderna vaccine otherwise.”

SottoVoce:

The “modifications” used in both the mRNA-1273 and BNT162b2 were to prevent their degradation once they arrive in cells. They both encode for the at the time wild type spike protein.

Like I said.

zantax · 2021-09-05T14:10:27.405Z

Altered

SottoVoce · 2021-09-05T15:01:47.466Z

zantax:

Altered

zantax:

Why are you telling me this? Have I suggested otherwise? Nope. Says in the article the vaccine altered the spike protein to be without the ace binder. But I already knew that.

zantax:

Disabling its ace receptor was key and why prior sars vaccines didn’t work.

The entire spike protein is encoded in both vaccines, which includes the RBD. The alteration is part of a non-translated segment so that the vaccine mRNA doesn’t fold upon itself or cleave within the cell, therefore degrading it. The translated vaccine spike protein is the same as the wild type spike protein.

johnwk2 · 2021-09-05T21:33:44.928Z

Jezcoe:

johnwk2:

And your documented evidence that it is safer for those who are healthy individuals, say between 10 and 30 years of age, to get the vaccine is safer for this group than to not get the vaccine is . . . ?

Any adverse reaction that the vaccine may have in that age group happens at greater rate with the virus.

Plus there is the added benefit of being at a lower risk of being infected and getting sick.

That whole getting sick part… I am not sure why people are all into doing that.

So, you have no documentation that it is safer for those who are healthy individuals between 10 and 30 years of age, to get the vaccine, than to not get the jab.

Seems to me, and I could be wrong but I doubt it, there are millions upon millions in the category identified who have gotten the virus, some having not even being aware of getting it, and now have natural immunity which is an important factor in our nation’s population reaching herd immunity. What I find quite suspicious is, little to no attention is given to natural immunity, Mother Nature’s way of dealing with this pandemic. WHY?

Those having natural immunity and are covid free are not spreading the virus, and yet, NYC’s one size fits all __ No Vax, No Service ___ discriminates against this group. NYC’s mandate ignores the science, by actually encouraging the fully vaccinated, who are symptom free but infected and can spread the virus, to go about and enjoy public accommodations and spread the virus, while those who have natural immunity and are virus free, are discriminated against by government and prohibited from going about their daily activities.

See Our COVID Overlords’ Insane Ignorance of Natural Immunity

Aug 23, 2021

"Appearing on Fox News’ “Hannity” to discuss the topic a few weeks ago, Dr. Nicole Saphier called the CDC “myopic.”

“We have ample data showing that natural immunity provides effectiveness against severe disease from SARS-CoV-2,” she said. “In fact, Israel showed that reinfection following prior infection is about seven times less likely than if you are fully vaccinated. So I find it to be very myopic that the CDC continues to discount the protection of natural immunity. They only do it for SARS-CoV-2. They acknowledge natural immunity for measles, chickenpox, and many other viruses, but they are so myopic right now in trying to encourage vaccination that they are truly actually not following the science.”

There is something very, very suspicious taking place when an important factor in dealing with the Covid outbreak is given little to no attention.

JWK

The citizens of the United States paid little attention while their tyrannical federal government gave aid and comfort to hundreds of thousands of foreign nationals invading their country.

Jezcoe · 2021-09-05T21:47:00.093Z

johnwk2:

So, you have no documentation that it is safer for those who are healthy individuals between 10 and 30 years of age, to get the vaccine, than to not get the jab.

How is contracting the virus and getting sick in any way safer than getting antibodies from a vaccine?

In what world is the disease better than the preventative?

johnwk2 · 2021-09-05T22:13:15.983Z

So, Jezcoe, instead of actually responding to MY POST and engage in a productive discussion, you choose to employ a stupid debating trick, bait and switch, and present a red herring question.

Well, let me return the favor.

How is getting the vaccine and suffering a bad reaction safer than being infected with the virus, beating it with no ill effects, and acquiring a lasting natural immunity?

In what world is potentially being poisoned by a vaccine better than acquiring natural immunity without any ill effects?

JWK

None dare call the Democrat Party Leadership’s arming of the Taliban, (our enemy), with United States’ military equipment, as TREASON. Why?

PurpnGold · 2021-09-05T22:20:54.083Z

johnwk2:

In what world is potentially being poisoned by a vaccine better than acquiring natural immunity without any ill effects?

Not in this world.

What percentage of people have an adverse reaction to the Covid vaccine?

Jezcoe · 2021-09-05T22:30:56.494Z

johnwk2:

How is getting the vaccine and suffering a bad reaction safer than being infected with the virus, beating it with no ill effects, and acquiring a lasting natural immunity?

The rate of adverse reactions to the vaccine is much much much lower than the rate of of those same reactions to contracting the virus.

Take for instance the risk of Myocarditis

Since the introduction of mRNA COVID-19 vaccines in the United States in December 2020, an elevated risk for myocarditis among mRNA COVID-19 vaccine recipients has been observed, particularly among males aged 12–29 years, with 39–47 expected cases of myocarditis, pericarditis, and myopericarditis per million second mRNA COVID-19 vaccine doses administered ( 6 ). A recent study from Israel reported that mRNA COVID-19 vaccination was associated with an elevated risk for myocarditis (risk ratio = 3.24; 95% CI = 1.55–12.44); in the same study, a separate analysis showed that SARS-CoV-2 infection was a strong risk factor for myocarditis (risk ratio = 18.28, 95% CI = 3.95–25.12) ( 4 ). On June 23, 2021, the Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices concluded that the benefits of COVID-19 vaccination clearly outweighed the risks for myocarditis after vaccination ( 6 ). The present study supports this recommendation by providing evidence of an elevated risk for myocarditis among persons of all ages with diagnosed COVID-19.

Centers for Disease Control and Prevention – 2 Sep 21

Association Between COVID-19 and Myocarditis...

Viral infections are a common cause of myocarditis. Some studies have indicated an association between COVID-19 and myocarditis.

It is safer to get the vaccine than it is to get sick with the virus… plus there is the added benefit of lowering the risk for being a disease vector and passing the virus to someone else.

LeroyBrown · 2021-09-05T22:44:49.969Z

SixFoot:

Was the Tweet Meanie a guinea pig for this treatment, or has it been available the whole time?

If we are to use the current Trumpist talking points, it was an experimental treatment that hasn’t even been approved by the FDA.

The reality was that it was in the testing process and at the time, the companies creating it could only produce enough to administer it to one week’s worth of the people that came down with Covid-19, and they had yet to do enough testing to know how effective it was in what circumstance to know how to prioritize dosing.

On the bright side, the Gates Foundation has worked with both of those companies to help them ramp up production.

It wasn’t until August that EU for Regen-Cov was modified as there was updated data from a phase 3 trial and it still isn’t a substitution for vaccination.

johnwk2 · 2021-09-05T23:14:09.685Z

You just cannot help yourself, Jezcoe, can you?

Once again you employ a stupid debating trick [bait and switch] rather than actually responding to MY POST and engage in a productive discussion.

We were talking about a specific age group in good health. You have offered absolutely nothing confirming it is safer for those who are healthy individuals between 10 and 30 years of age, to get the vaccine, than to not get the jab.

Why do you persist in such obfuscations and misdirection’s?

Finally, you end your post with an innuendo proving to not be the case. Contrary to your innuendo, we are leaning as each day passes that the vaxxed can, and are, becoming supper spreaders of the virus. And this brings us to NYC’s one size fits all __ No Vax, No Service ___ which discriminates against those with natural immunity.

NYC’s mandate ignores the science, by actually encouraging the fully vaccinated, who are symptom free but infected and can spread the virus, to go about and enjoy public accommodations and spread the virus, while those who have natural immunity and are virus free, are discriminated against by government and prohibited from going about their daily activities.

JWK

Let us never forget. There is now both domestic and foreign blood on the hands of all those who voted for the Biden/Harris ticket.

vksintx · 2021-09-06T01:02:51.145Z

Yes, John, you nailed it. The natural immunity is way better than the immunity from the vaccine. Not that anybody would deliberately get covid, of course!! I would rather take the chances of getting covid, get treated quickly and aggressively, which I KNOW would happen in my case, and recover with natural immunity than take the vaccines which have high adverse reactions and are losing efficacy now anyway, requiring who-knows-how-many boosters. I am particularly concerned about long term effects of the vaccines that may show up in 3-5 years. Meanwhile, I am taking preventative regimen and keeping myself healthy. I am careful around others and distance in the public arena when we leave our property, which is in the country.
Everyone must make these choices for themselves.

vksintx · 2021-09-06T01:07:06.830Z

]
How is getting the vaccine and suffering a bad reaction safer than being infected with the virus, beating it with no ill effects, and acquiring a lasting natural immunity

John, this is what I was responding to (I am obviously not very adept at these things—must be an “old person” issue)

PurpnGold · 2021-09-06T01:10:19.408Z

vksintx:

Yes, John, you nailed it. The natural immunity is way better than the immunity from the vaccine

But you have to catch Covid. That’s a huge caveat

vksintx · 2021-09-06T01:14:12.047Z

My chances of recovery are 99.997%. Probably better because I will be getting the best care available.

PurpnGold · 2021-09-06T01:15:08.198Z

vksintx:

My chances of recovery are 99.997%. Probably better because I will be getting the best care available.

With possible long term effects. Why take into consideration long term effects of the vaccine but not Covid

vksintx · 2021-09-06T01:34:19.417Z

With every booster the risks are multiplied. And many covid cases are fully vaccinated people now. In Israel from July 4-31, 86.0% of confirmed cases were fully vaccinated people. (Source Israeli government covid-19 dashboard) Iceland recent number is 77% are in the fully vaccinated.
Why should I take the vaccine risk and then get covid anyway?
I am honestly not trying to be argumentative or flippant. These are difficult issues.

Munimula1 · 2021-09-06T02:14:43.153Z

WuWei:

There have never been enough beds. That’s why triage was invented.

To dole out ICU beds? Nah.

johnwk2 · 2021-09-06T12:08:39.030Z

vksintx:

Yes, John, you nailed it. The natural immunity is way better than the immunity from the vaccine. Not that anybody would deliberately get covid, of course!! I would rather take the chances of getting covid, get treated quickly and aggressively, which I KNOW would happen in my case, and recover with natural immunity than take the vaccines which have high adverse reactions and are losing efficacy now anyway, requiring who-knows-how-many boosters. I am particularly concerned about long term effects of the vaccines that may show up in 3-5 years. Meanwhile, I am taking preventative regimen and keeping myself healthy. I am careful around others and distance in the public arena when we leave our property, which is in the country.
Everyone must make these choices for themselves.

Although I would be considered in the “high risk” category because of my age, I am very conscious of my health and my immune system is extraordinary, so I am not too concerned about being infected with the virus, although I always take common sense precautions when around others.

Aside from that, there are many commonly available products which, if taken at the first signs of a virus infection, and especially a respiratory infection, which can and do prevent viruses from replicating. I have known this since the early 1990s and have yet to be incapacitated by a cold, flu, or any other respiratory infection and do not want to, without absolute certainty of its safety, introduce a laboratory cooked up concoction into my body.

And now we are seeing the “vaccine”, in general, is not as effective as natural immunity, and yet, the vaccine jabbers demand an unscientific one size fits all approach __ No Vax, No Service ___ which discriminates against those having natural immunity to the COVID virus.

NYC’s mandate__ No Vax, No Service ___ ignores the science, by actually encouraging the fully vaccinated, who are symptom free but infected and can spread the virus, to go about and enjoy public accommodations and spread the virus, while those who have natural immunity and are virus free, are discriminated against by government and prohibited from going about their daily activities. So why is natural immunity given little to no attention?

See Our COVID Overlords’ Insane Ignorance of Natural Immunity

Aug 23, 2021

"Appearing on Fox News’ “Hannity” to discuss the topic a few weeks ago, Dr. Nicole Saphier called the CDC “myopic.”

“We have ample data showing that natural immunity provides effectiveness against severe disease from SARS-CoV-2,” she said. “In fact, Israel showed that reinfection following prior infection is about seven times less likely than if you are fully vaccinated. So I find it to be very myopic that the CDC continues to discount the protection of natural immunity. They only do it for SARS-CoV-2. They acknowledge natural immunity for measles, chickenpox, and many other viruses, but they are so myopic right now in trying to encourage vaccination that they are truly actually not following the science.”

There is something very, very suspicious taking place when an important factor, natural immunity, in dealing with the Covid outbreak is given little to no attention.

BTW, did you see the following? COVID-19 survivors may possess wide-ranging resistance to the disease

July 22, 2021

”Recovered COVID-19 patients retain broad and effective longer-term immunity to the disease, suggests a recent Emory University study, which is the most comprehensive of its kind so far. The findings have implications for expanding understanding about human immune memory as well as future vaccine development for coronaviruses.”

The article goes on to point out the study suggests “. . . that patients who survived COVID-19 are likely to also possess protective immunity even against some SARS-CoV-2 variants.”

One thing for certain is, we need to pay more attention to natural immunity which is an important factor in dealing with the COVID outbreak.

JWK