What I Believe About Our Response to the Epidemic

General ramblings. I will not be posting any links. I am willing to discuss my thoughts, civilly.

  1. The experts didn’t know. Not all their fault, they got caught up in novel. The mitigations were based on assumptions, suppositions and previous experience, not “data”. They didn’t have any data. They weren’t bad guesses, they mostly made sense. But they didn’t work nearly as well as “hoped” - scientists don’t hope.

Example: social distance 6’. Where did that number come from? There’s no science behind it. There are studies which clearly show a cough or sneeze can contaminate over twice that distance.

Example: wash your hands for 20 seconds. Not science. Quality much more important than quantity. I can wash my hands for 40 seconds improperly.

I’ve noticed that every single one of the mitigations is operator dependent. Every single one of them. They gave us a bunch of stuff to do because they can’t do anything. I can almost taste their frustration.

The results in the areas with the most stringently restricted areas is not materially better than those with less. It wasn’t the difference.

I agree with targeted testing. With the advantage of hindsight, I can think of several things in that area we should have done. Taiwan tested based on travel and possible symptoms. You had 1 degree of fever - test. No symptoms - no test unless you had traveled to a hot spot. They shut down public transportation for a few days, NYC can’t. Some things the same, others different.

The experts told us early on ventilators were critical, then the data told us not so much. I don’t blame them, they’re human. But we also spent some chasing something that wasn’t critical.

I notice we’re giving up on some of the drugs being helpful pretty quick. They may or may not be a help. I will remind you of this; Tamiflu can be helpful with the flu: if you take it within the first 48 hours (probably too big a window) of becoming symptomatic. How many people know when they first became symptomatic (operator dependent)? How many can get it within that time frame? And if it does work, it may shorten the symptomatic period by a day. Does that mean it’s not worth using? Not in my opinion. These other drugs may not work until we find the right combination of criteria, or they may not work at all.

What this first point tells me is that we blindly believed a bunch of people trying to guide us through a dark tunnel without a flashlight of their own. Everyone of them had opinions and contexts, which are not the same as mine.

I respect expertise, I also know it is not infallible by any stretch of the imagination. And that’s what we expected of everyone of them. We put all our faith in government, a government of people, despite knowing damn good and well we don’t even put the best of the best in government.

I respect Drs. Fauci and Birx for their dedication and efforts, for their expertise. All the others as well. Everyone one of them. Cuomo for example. But while in some cases they, if they all work together as a team can perhaps make a bad situation a bit better, government cannot save us. It is designed to protect itself first.

This problem is not resolved by a long shot and already it is back to doing what it does. And we will be expected to put the country back together for them when we get through dying.

Example: Because of what we did, I would imagine that a whole lot of people that were within a year or five of retiring are not going to be able to now. They are going to have to keep working in the heat and cold. And some will die because of it.

There’s been a lot of talk about “wasting time, lost months, etc.” Well, sometimes when you rush the “experts”, you get errors. Costly errors. And a lot of times, less is more.

I’ll be back with more thoughts as they pop into my crazy head. Or not.

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There is no silver bullet and we don’t believe it. There has to be.

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Oh, and I won’t be responding to any posts with links in them. You can post them, just don’t expect a response.

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What I think we should be focused on is.

  1. Vaccine - and hopefully not a 25% solution depending on the year.
  2. Figuring out if the recovered are immune (I doubt it)
  3. If we are building antibodies by being exposed or recovering.
  4. Is there anything we can do to help us survive it.

I would rather see testing for antibodies than testing for infection.

I assume everyone is going to be exposed and we’re going to have to learn to live with it.

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We did a piss poor job of protecting our elders, who were already relatively isolated. We suck.

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Oh, and all feelings.

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Ya that from the start right down the street from me in Kirkland the nursing home. And no one learned and it has happened to many other nursing homes since then. I have always been for protecting the sick (pre-existing conditions) as well as the elderly.

I think the rest of us just have to live with it until a day the vaccine comes. I won’t link like you asked but supposedly it’s already mutated again to and even more contagious version of its former self.

Of course they didn’t know. They based lot of what they knew off of what happen 100 years earlier without accurate data and under completely different political environment. Keep in mind they had 100 years of indoctrination as well. Which you later mention about goverment saving us.

6 ft rule is stupid IMO. I would be more worried about touching something that is contaminated.

On a side note when I went to into grocery store other day a one of woman workers was saying 6 ft apart…but shes standing right next to baskets. I said don’t be standing next to baskets then.

As for washing my hands. I use diluted scented “Lavender” bleach LOL.

Also those face covering stuff…it’s total BS IMO. They don’t want YOU spreading the virus but it seems they don’t care if YOU get it.

My theory is I don’t have to worry about spreading it if I don’t get it.

Which goes back to testing. What the hell is that? You need 3 symptoms in order to get the test. Well how do they know if they’re not asymptomatic.

That’s another thing…we had this crash program to build em but they’re nothing more then death traps. That damn governor of NY bitching and whining that he needs all the ventilators…and he didn’t even use the one he had.

Again you can’t make billions and billion of dollars off of old drugs. Keep in mid we are nothing more then commodity to them.

LOL I don’ think I have to say anything here. :rofl:

I never recovered from housing crisis. My peak earning years in this business was during that exact time period. This is devastating to those that are trying to rebuild in later part of their years.

Sometime my best work is by doing nothing…

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I believe that we should open everything. Those most vulnerable should stay away from the rest of us till it burns out. It’s too contagious to contain, so will spread no matter when we open. Better to open & not die of poverty as well as the virus.

Oh, all those vulnerable we are concerned about, they will be the first to die of poverty. If the government is broke & we are all broke, the government can’t help ANYONE, & none of us either, we will all be too busy trying to feed our families/selves.

I think some are so deluded to think the government can keep paying for everything when the economy is destroyed. I guess it’s magic!

I don’t want anyone to get sick or die, THEREFORE we NEED to re-open. Many more will die if we do not.

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Probably the biggest error of all here and NY was the worst.

It is insane that they not only forced nursing homes to accept CCPV positive patients they kept CCPV positive “care workers” in the nursing homes.

Texas did a very good job overall with our nursing homes keeping the most vulnerable protected by quickly locking them up, limiting access, testing workers and being very careful in screening anyone entering the facilities.

The young and healthy have less to fear from this disease than they do the flu, they are not an issue.

We know who is most vulnerable and likely to become seriously, critically or fatally ill, protect them and get the rest back to work.

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I think antibody testing is priority one.

It will open the door to large groups and life really back to normal.

Early indications of 15 to 25 percent herd immunity are encouraging to me.

Aside from group events everyone else should be back to work.

I am ready to lead the insurrection to get this done.

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My FIL is at a western PA private care facility. It is small and well managed for Alzheimer’s. They locked down early and have had zero cases. Just shows what can be done.

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Antibodies testing so far looked very promising. NY was coming up on 25% infected two weeks ago. They’re almost halfway to herd immunity and making plans for reopening.

If we take the 25% infected in NY, with 20k deaths, we get about 0.4% mortality. I believe it’s lower than that, two week old data, plus every death is currently being blamed on Coronavirus. At that time, it was around 0.1%.

So, with a 0.1% mortality rate, let’s bring the UK into the picture. They didn’t decide to lock it down until after flirting with the idea of herd immunity. They were real late to the pillow fight. And the deaths there, approaching 30K, are all over the news. “Most Deaths in Europe!!”

They may have done right. If mortality is 0.1%, and 60% of population infected gets you to herd immunity, then they need to get just under 40K deaths to break the finish line. Subtract from that any mitigation through HCQ, Azythromyacin, or Remdesivir, and they may already be there.

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What cracks me up is entering a convenience market ahd seeing a narrow sliver of plastic as a “barricade” between the clerk and customer. It’s like putting a two foot wide barrier near a 6 foot wide entrance.

An invisible virus can’t move around such a narrow barrier? Or those red tapes in the supermarket & signs that say “Stop here until you’re called”. The virus will be stopped by that red tape & one customer at a time? How?

The country wasn’t founded on nonsense like “social distancing” or “sheltering in place” or feel good crap like “We’re all in this together.” It’s time fir testing and treating individuals as individuals and getting the healthy back to work before the cure is worse than the disease.

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You respect Andrew Cuomo? Why?

This same jerk who says things like “If one life is saved, it’ll be worth it” forced nursing homes to readmit symptom free COVID 19 patients , sending body bags at the same time. He’s the same creep who told out of work New Yorkers to go out and get one of those essential jobs right now, pretty much the equivalent of “Let them eat cake.”

He’s the same creep who thinks anti abortion advocates shouldn’t be in New York, and he’s interested in saving lives? I don’t think so.

Just my rambling thoughts for the day with no links.

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…cuz they don’t have relatives at nursing homes in New York?

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Why. are you saying the mitigations did not work as well as “hoped.” New York State has turned the corner in terms of deaths/hospitalizaitons/new cases based on its mitigation strategy.

I am not going to argue that every action and statement by either Andrew Cuomo or Bill DiBlasio was correct. That’s not the point.

Why are the overall New York results not a demonstration that mitigation, though painful, is effective?

So you are saying it is time to open all business with mitigation.

You are 100% on the money.

Only 2% of fatal cases were of people with no underlying medical condition.

The virus preys on the weak. Work will make us strong.

:muscle:t3:

Note, this means we’re looking at around 180K deaths in America for herd immunity. We’re currently at 70?

So the massive outbreaks of the corona virus among New York City transit workers and in numerous meat packing plants are indications that people who work in meat packing plants and transit systems are weak?

I undertstand reopen with mitigation. What mitigation are you calling for in the workplace?