Can’t let Ukrainians be the only ones feeding at the trough.
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Mercs! He’s using mercs!
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He is at war, he will use whatever he can get his hands on.
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Some unfortunate news coming out on the logistics side. Russian artillery shell production is now being estimated at 4.5 million shells annually. This compares to 1.3 million shells per year across all of Ukraine’s allies. It also has a cost factor, as the production cost of a Western 155 mm shell is about $4,000, while the estimated cost of a Russian 152 mm shell is about $1,000. It is estimated that 80% of the combined casualties have been caused by artillery fire. Artillery isn’t know as the King of Battle for nothing.
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Curious when did the U.S. military go full on price above everything else. I know little of war, other than what I’ve read throughout the years in books. It is interesting when you read about wars like World War II and the Sherman tank how it was made cheaply but was the winner because like the Soviet T34 they could pump out as many Sherman’s as they wanted at a cheap price whereas the enemy tanks (while maybe better) cost to much to compete.
It seems that throughout the years price become no object in the US. I’m not sure when that started just like your artillery assessment. Why does American artillery cost $4000 compared to the Russians $1000? Why do our tanks have turbine engines, when everybody else is using cheap diesel.
And that is before you get into the crazy things like the price of an F35’s. Then you look at the current war and it’s being fought by cheap drones, Iranian kamikaze drones, and cheap artillery shells.
Again I am a military layman in terms of military knowledge, but it seems like our militaries price is no object and what we see in the current battle is at odds. I wonder if a well-placed hypersonic missile from China would take out one of our billion dollar aircraft carriers? Are of any use fighting a major power?. It’s scary how things have changed since the gulf wars yet I wonder if we are still in a 1990’s style battlefield mentality in the year 2024.
Contracting, currency, labor costs, fraud… This isn’t an issue of military operations, it is one procurement.
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2M tops
They were at 250,000 per month (3,000,000 annually) last year. As Putin has moved Russian industry to a war time production standing he is converting plants to munitions productions and bringing new facilities on line. And the basic 152 mm shell isn’t exactly 21 century tech. It’s a 1940’s item with modern manufacturing methods churning it out. Same thing with new barrels for the artillery. 1940’s tech with modern manufacturing methods churning them out. And no country in the West has moved their economies and industrial base to a wartime footing. Wishful thinking is not going to change reality.
And it really looks like Kharkiv was just a feint. They got Ukraine to redeploy a bunch of troops and reserves and consume munitions. Then all of a sudden pull back, yet stay in the AO. Meanwhile the pressure in the center continues to build, but now Ukraine has fewer reserves to reenforce the center.
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I should have worded that better I mean did America move away from making reliable gear (that wasn’t the apex of expense) for getting the job done in place of more expensive tech that doesn’t necessarily equal better performance in todays battlefield against a competent competitor not the Taliban. I mean on paper the Sherman wasn’t as good as the Tiger but if you lost a Sherman you could go grab another whereas the 10x more expensive Tiger there likely was no replacement. Seems we have all the fancy stuff but getting beat out on artillery production by Russia or NK.
I don’t think anyone would argue against having high tech air power but if they find out everything that flies dies in todays modern warfare against a peer competitor and wars will devolve to artillery and drones is America equipped for that type of war? I mean we can see whether it’s a 4 million dollar Russian tank or a 13+ million nato tank, swarming a tank with cheap drones will take them out over and over.
They even started putting those crazy looking cope cages on the Abrams tanks over there.
I could be far off and naive about the whole thing it just seems we might be at the top of military tech for a bygone era 90’s. Whereas today drones and artillery is everything. I still wonder if a one Chinese hypersonic missile could sink a billion dollar aircraft carrier before its even in operational range.
The Russian’s are averaging 10,000 rounds fired a day, which is 3.65 million shells fired a year. Ukraine is consuming 2000 rounds a day, a 730,000 shells a year rate, and their munitions supplies are stretched. We already know that promised supplies seem to just trickle in for Ukraine.
We have focused on accuracy, range and precision detection at range. In WW2 the qualitative edge enjoyed by the German Army wasn’t really that large. Japan and Italy didn’t enjoy the same edge with their equipment. Today’s equipment is very superior in what it takes to detect and kill targets. As for China, they are building the last war’s weapons to attack in the face of next war’s defensive systems. Fast missiles aren’t really that fast when targeted by an electron particle beam laser. The laser quickly alters the aerodynamics of the missile and its speed and atmospheric friction tears it apart.
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so they claimed. and no
niether is russian propaganda. They are nowhere near 4.5M shells per month
This is what Western Intelligence is reporting, not what the Russians are claiming.
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4.5 million per year, not month.
more like 8. which for them is starving. They were firing 60K a day when they were “successful”. Russia’s artillery tactics suck, area fires which means you have to fire a lot to actually do any damage. They fire 4 or 5 times more than Ukraine, yet they are losing the counter battery war (still). Their old crap and worn out barrels lack both range and accuracy.
I know you said that, its also way over estimated, like by 2X
and its still way over estimated. they were at 2m at the end of last year. They have not doubled it since then. I doubt its moved much at all.
Just the prospect of a Trump win gets Zelinsky to the peace talk table.
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