Trump Grounds Boeing 737 MAX 8 and 9 Jets After Two Crashes

[Konssurvative1]

I like flying booth

[WildRose]

You don’t need to be an expert to have basic knowledge of any subject.

You do however need a basic working knowledge of the subject to have anything resembling an intelligent discussion.

[WildRose]

I’m a control freak, I wouldn’t want to bet my own life on any plane that cannot be flown safely by a pilot without CAFC’s.

[dantes]

I have basic knowledge. So do you. Which I think is why you’re making general statements that are probably only half true and not relevant.

[WildRose]

Obviously you do not.

[adroit]

@WildRose

If you flew a given model aircraft would you keep yourself up on the latest updates and warnings?

There are reports of pilots reading the aircraft documentation in the limo on the way to the airport to fly the aircraft for the first time. Because Boeing pitched this craft as practically the same as the NG.

[WildRose]

There are reports it’s all a big conspiracy too.

If neither pilot was properly trained in this aircraft the problem is that of the airline, not Boeing and they should have refused to fly it.

[adroit]

@WildRose

You don’t know what training the pilots in this test had or if they had any training on the problem. All are assumptions absent facts.

Kindly sit out of the convo if you don’t know what the ■■■■ you’re talking about.

The pilots, in the simulations, followed such procedures to successfully shut off the system and land safely. But they did so with a far better understanding of how it worked and prior knowledge that it would be triggered — benefits that the pilots of the fatal 737 Max crashes did not have.

In Test of Boeing Jet, Pilots Had 40 Seconds to Fix Error (Published 2019)

[dantes]

Between the two of us, I seem to be the one unwilling to make it up as we go along.

[WildRose]

“may have”, assumptions, not facts.

[WildRose]

If you can show where I’m making anything up go right ahead.

[WildRose]

There’s not a pilot in the US anywhere that would be allowed to jump in and fly one of these with no prior simulator time or a senior pilot instructor in the cockpit.

The word filter is being ridiculous here. Compound word half of which is pit.

[Samm]

@Konssurvative1

I agree, but safety shouldn’t be an upgrade. All planes Boeing sells should all be the same.

All modern jet liners from all manufacturers have safety related upgrades that are optional. Airbus, for example, had options that would have prevented several fatal accidents related to pitot tube icing had the airlines elected to purchase them. Yet, none of the Airbus planes were grounded because of it.

[Samm]

@adroit

@WildRose

wo US pilots recreated the same incident and were able to recover the plane in under 40 seconds.

A 40 second window for pilots who were aware of the problem and had the indicators that showed when the problem occurred.

We aren’t sure if the pilots of the two crashed flights were aware of the issue at all and we know they didn’t have the indicator that showed when the problem was occurring. Boeing ■■■■■■ up by making it optional and not sufficiently telling customers the extent of the changes with the new MCAS system.

They don’t need the sensors to be aware of the problem. As soon as the plane goes through the first cycle of the MCAS pushing the nose down while they are ascending, they should be on alert. If it occurs a second time, they should know immediately that they may have a problem and switch off the device. It is that simple. What the pilots who were flying the doomed aircraft lacked was awareness and training.

[WildRose]

It’s just easier to blame the “big corporation” than it is to put the blame where it actually belongs.

Boeing has no control over training foreign pilots nor can the prevent improperly trained pilots from getting into the aircraft and flying it off. That is the responsibility of the airlines and pilots themselves.

[mobiusptc]

@Samm

@PizzaReverend

Good. This is much better than that stupid rant about Einstein and Complexity. Let’s get these fixed and safe again.

Yes. Assuming there is anything wrong with the planes to be fixed. The initial indication following the first crash was a lack of communication between the Boeing auto flight control software developers and pilot training. In that case, a simple flip of a switch when the plane began to “misbehave” would have averted the crash. Supposedly a software patch was written to prevent a repeat of that issue, but it is not known if either the patch or the pilot training was implemented in this recent event.

In his own bumbling and inarticulate way, Trump’s initial response was correct. The complex technology on modern jet liners makes pilots lesser airmen. There are numerous incidents where reliance on computer technology caused the pilots forget rule number one in an emergency … “fly the plane.” Newer pilots in particular, tend to not develop the seat of the pants skills to fly the plane when the technology fails.

“simple flip of the switch” that there is a can of worm. if the switch is the autopilot all that would control do is make sure the pilot can control all of the primary flight controls(very important distinction) without interaction of any kind of automation. that is of course assuming its a non Fly-by-wire aircraft and understanding that the flight director, the throttles, and engine will still react as it was program was designed. the max is still mostly not fly by wire when not counting FADEC(engine controls) and spoiler system which is used both in flight and on touchdown. the Trim system would be one of those secondary flight control system which would again, not be directly affected by just a simple auto pilot disconnect. they would still act according to the programmed priority system so if he pilot were to hand fly, it would still continue to go about its business for better or for worse.

then of course you get into other “buttons” like aforementioned trim, hydraulics overrides etc which would have a giant list of secondary reaction that are specific to the air frame so i cant really say 100% what they would be. suffice to say system knowledge is key when going through any jet training.

But wait oh look…guess what they did

The pilots of a doomed Ethiopian Airlines jet followed all of Boeing’s recommended procedures when the plane started to nose dive but still couldn’t save it, according to findings from a preliminary report released Thursday by the Ethiopian government. The plane crashed just six minutes after taking off from Addis Ababa, killing all 157 people on board.
Faulty sensor led to Boeing 737 Max crash, Ethiopian report says

[mobiusptc]

@WildRose

From what I’m seeing the pilots had been through the retraining. I’m starting to think there’s a software problem that the coders haven’t identified yet or that somehow some malicious code has beeninserted.

Malicious code or corporate greed…I know the one my money’s on. Glad we all hate overbearing regulations …

[mobiusptc]

@Samm

@WildRose

From what I’m seeing the pilots had been through the retraining. I’m starting to think there’s a software problem that the coders haven’t identified yet or that somehow some malicious code has beeninserted.

You could be right, but you have to consider where this accident occurred. I expect that most pilots have been trained, but that does not mean all have. Ethiopia is known to be a " ■■■■ hole" country.

Utter ■■■■■■■■■ Smaller countries take huge pride in their aviation programs and safety. a single loss of platform is devastating. the last time Ethiopian airline had death was 9 years ago. and before that was 2002 and that was due to a freaking hijacking. so that would make 2 instances in 17 years. considering they have a current fleet of over 100 aircraft with the vast majority being a variation of 737…they know what they are doing

[mobiusptc]

@WuWei

I think either Boeing is going out of business or the government will have to bail them out.

Nope. It’s not the first time plane have crash because of design issue or been grounded because of said issue. 787, dc10, 737-300 rudder. list goes on

[mobiusptc]

@WildRose

It is, but at least two of the reports I’ve heard/seen said they’d had the required simulator retraining. One disconcerting thing I heard is that the first officer only had 200hrs in this model where over a thousand would be required for anyone in that position in the US.

That is all sorts of wrong on so many levels, par for course.