Toxic masculinity and white privilige. What to do?


#88

a lot of people think woman are the lesser gender who should stay in the house and be quiet and have babies, that is toxic masculinity.


#89

Sweet, thank you. :slight_smile:

You said the following (I will quote so we’re on the same page):

I assumed that is referring to toxic masculinity and white “privilige.” Saying you don’t believe in them implies you claim an understanding of what they are. What is it you think you don’t believe in?


#90

Sweet, thank you. :slight_smile:

You said the following (I will quote so we’re on the same page):

I assumed that is referring to toxic masculinity and white “privilige.” Saying you don’t believe in them implies you claim an understanding of what they are. What is it you don’t believe in?


#91

If there is a liberal plan to address toxic masculinity or white privilege that could affect me. If it is simply a labelling campaign or shaming technique then I am free to shrug off the haters. And if you don’t get it this time, if it hasn’t sunk in, I’m gonna have to move on from you. With my ADD, I have little tolerance for boredom. It’s my Kryptonite.


#92

That is not an answer. What do you think those concepts are?

Or just move on. I know it can be a difficult thing to articulate.


#93

Toxic masculinity = testosterone. The party of science used to know this until 100 different genders were created in a fortnight.


#94

Okay here’s the answer. I don’t believe in T.M or W.P. But I want to know if liberals have a plan to do anything about it. Because that could impact me. Do they?


#95

That’s answering whether or not you believe in them, which you established in your OP. You don’t. What I am asking you, specifically, is what you think those concepts entail? What is it you don’t believe in?


#96

OK. But I expect my question to be answered as well. There are good people and bad people of both genders. And there is nothing toxic about being masculine. Being white no longer offers much of a privilege. Being educated and skilled does. Most white folk don’t care if we have black neighbors. We just want someone who takes care of their yard. Race doesn’t matter to 95 percent of the population. But we still have some bad people. We always will. Nearly everyone who properly prepares for life will succeed. Regardless of race. Race is not holding anyone back. And I’m okay with you not agreeing.

Now. You have my opinion. Now give me yours, Should something be done about WP or TM? or is the labelling enough?


#97

This snippet shows you actually don’t understand the concepts.


#98

An answer in turn. I agree - there are good and bad in both men and women. I agree - there is nothing toxic in being masculine.

Where I disagree is that unlike you, I will contend that masculinity is often distorted and abused, and can become toxic when it manifests in unjustifiable violence, or excuses the perpetuation of inequality.

Where I disagree with you is in whether being white no longer offers a social advantage. You mentioned education and skill as offering advantages, and you’re correct. But how are those acquired - equally? Do some have access to resources others do not? That’s only one example, of course.

I agree that most people do not overly care about the race of the neighbors. I agree that we will always have bad people. And I agree that we disagree - to my mind, history has demonstrated that both overtly and subtly minorities and women too often face an obstacle based on their race and or gender, that does not manifest for whites and males.

So when you ask me if something should be done about white privilege or toxic masculinity, I would say yes. The first thing that should be done is to discuss the powers and parameters of each, and whether they are in fact a destructive element in our society. Where we disagree is in the very notion of their existence. They are not a liberal fantasy, but a social condition. They are not an all or nothing, but manifest in varying degrees depending on varying conditions.

And they are certainly not just a liberal construct intended to make you feel guilty about yourself, although I will concede that too often they are presented in such a way as to make it easy for someone to react in vitriol to the mention of them.


#99

Again no one is suggesting being Masculine is toxic.

the very term Toxic Masculine suggest there are non Toxic aspect of Masculinity.


#100

If people viewed all Masculinity as toxic. They would say Masculinity is toxic not Toxic Masculinity because that implies there are part of Masculinity that are in fact not toxic.


#101

And yet obviously some people genuinely appear to believe that when someone addresses toxic masculinity, it’s the whole of masculinity being condemned.


#102

when I debate this in person I simply ask should we bully boy who cry or are emotional? and they say no that is wrong… bingo you just agreed that Toxic Masculinity is bad.


#103

That’s not real masculinity though.

True masculinity is the willingness to do what is necessary to protect those around you. Be they men or women. To think logically, not emotionally about situations. To sacrifice your wants for the greater good.

Historically and culturally speaking though men are expected to uphold these traits. There’s a larger burden placed on us because we are, physically speaking, the stronger of the two sexes. Women can have these traits as well, though.

I’d argue that today women often do a better job of being men than men because we have, as a society, lowered our expectations of men. Women have been forced to pick up the slack.

What you are describing is a twisted form of masculinity. That is Misogyny.


#104

The things lurking under Ru’s bed.


#105

There is absolutely nothing wrong with a man crying during emotionally trying situations. It’s part of being human and having emotions.

What is expected of men is to not let emotions control you, though.

When my fiancé and I have arguments (every couple has them) I make it a point to recognize when my emotions are getting the better of me and turn and walk away. She does the same. It’s best to take time to reflect before you say something you regret.

There’s a balance to be had.


#106

I think a lot of people overreact to the term Marxist.

Plus it’s used a catch all for every form of leftist ideology. Which isn’t accurate at all. The only time I’ve ever discussed politics with a coworker was about a year ago. We got on the discussion of worker organization and unionizing. I’m very pro union even though I work in an industry that is inherently hostile to worker organization. By just expressing my pro union stance he basically called me a communist.

After that I just never brought up anything political again. Honestly I’m sort of burnt out on it. I like these cultural discussions on the board but I rarely discuss politics anymore.


#107

Which is strange because Unions are inherently Capitalist.