Should we take both vaccine shots?

Nope, not a chance .

Stubborn to a fault. :grinning:

And also it’s quiet profitable for the companies to give two shots rather than one (Double the Money). The race to get the vaccine was also the race to get the big cash prize, people shouldn’t think profit isn’t involved in every decision they make.

Moderna’s vaccine after the first shot gives 92.1% immunity, I would take those odds any day of the week. No one dreamed we would have a vaccine anywhere near that level. In theory everyone could get one shot and sign up for another one later if they want after everyone else was vaccinated.

You sure about that?

Keep us informed. :wink:

There were hypersensitivity “allergic” reactions during the trials for Pfizer and Moderna, just not anaphylaxis.

Hypersensitivity-related adverse events were observed in 0.63% of Pfizer-BioNTech and 1.5% of Moderna COVID-19 vaccine clinical trial participants who received the vaccine, compared to 0.51% and 1.1%, respectively, in the placebo groups. Anaphylaxis following vaccination was not observed in the Pfizer-BioNTech or Moderna COVID-19 vaccine clinical trials. However, anaphylactic reactions have been reported following receipt of the Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 vaccine during vaccination outside of clinical trials.

https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/covid-19/info-by-product/clinical-considerations.html?CDC_AA_refVal=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.cdc.gov%2Fvaccines%2Fcovid-19%2Finfo-by-product%2Fpfizer%2Fclinical-considerations.html

So far there have been 6 episodes of anaphylaxis with the Pfizer vaccine. All were treated and the patients did fine. There is a recommended 15-30 minute observation following vaccination based on history of allergy. Although some may argue, true type 1 hypersensitivity occurs within minutes of exposure. My field deals with iodinated contrast literally every day. I have my own beliefs (based on modern research) and the whole allergy thing is way overblown. Most “anaphylaxis” is anxiety.

All that being said…6 total cases of anaphylaxis out of 600,000+ administered doses is pretty darn good.

That would place the vaccines well below the expected 50-200 episodes per 100,000 person-years.

In short, thus far the risk of anaphylaxis from the vaccines is incredibly low. Well below expected “background” anaphylaxis.

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.001 percent.

Yeah not bad considering the options.

If you are over 70, you could be dead before that happens.

Or three or more co morbidities at any age.

Thank you.

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And not necessarily from COVID. :wink:

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Visiting with a Doc friend today on this very subject and it expanded.

He shares my curiosity about what the final total mortality increase for the year will be since it seems everyone is dying “OF” covid but not Flu, Chronic Cardiac and Respiratory illness etc that are normally our leading causes of death.

I strongly suspect there will be some increase in total mortality but with so many shenanigans as far as cause of death this year because of all the covid money and politics we’re likely to find out the actual death toll FROM covid is far lower than what is being reported.

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Yes. What is actually happening is most people are dying with COVID, not of COVID.

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I am following the news not sure if their sources got the data right :slight_smile:

If you can get by the paywall NYT’s had an article on it

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2020/12/18/opinion/coronavirus-vaccine-doses.amp.html

For those that can’t

“For both vaccines, the sharp drop in disease in the vaccinated group started about 10 to 14 days after the first dose, before receiving the second. Moderna reported the initial dose to be 92.1 percent efficacious in preventing Covid-19 starting two weeks after the initial shot, when the immune system effects from the vaccine kick in, before the second injection on the 28th day.”

That raises the question of whether we should already be administrating only a single dose. But while the data is suggestive, it is also limited; important questions remain, and approval would require high standards and more trials.

“The reason we do a second — booster — vaccination is that these later doses help to solidify immune memory, in part by giving extra training to the cells that produce antibodies, a process called affinity maturation.

But this process begins with the single dose, and the evidence collected between the time of the first and second doses in tens of thousands of people in the Phase 3 trials suggests that the level of affinity maturation may provide enough protection to meet the standards we have set for vaccine approval during this pandemic even without the second dose.”

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And all we need to do to get this under control is to break the chain.

The first dose given to everyone that can take the vaccine would accomplish that in a few weeks, epidemic then is over.

No, the excess death rate in the US actually exceeds the number of known COVID deaths, if anything we are undercounting the death rate of COVID.

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What was the expected total mortality for the US going into 2020?

What is the actual total mortality for the US for 2020?

What is the difference between the two?

What was the projected number of deaths from each of the top 10 causes of death in the US for 2020?

What is the actual number for each of those for 2020?

What is the difference?

How many of those excess deaths are due to people not being able to get treatment for conditions that would have otherwise been treated but could not get into hospitals because they were only taking covid and Trauma Cases?

Here is a graph from the CDC website.

Notice how the excess deaths roughly maps the COVID deaths in the US?

And there are some deaths COVID related that are not infected people. For instance, suicide due to joblessness. But there are also deaths averted because of the shutdown, for instance traffic deaths are probably going to be less this year.

Number of deaths expected to increase by 15% this year, the highest yearly increase since 1918.

U.S. deaths increase most years, so some annual rise in fatalities is expected. But the 2020 numbers amount to a jump of about 15%, and could go higher once all the deaths from this month are counted.

That would mark the largest single-year percentage leap since 1918, when tens of thousands of U.S. soldiers died in World War I and hundreds of thousands of Americans died in a flu pandemic. Deaths rose 46% that year, compared with 1917.

That answered none of my questions.

Should I re-post them?

Here you go.

What was the expected total mortality for the US going into 2020?

What is the actual total mortality for the US for 2020?

What is the difference between the two?

What was the projected number of deaths from each of the top 10 causes of death in the US for 2020?

What is the actual number for each of those for 2020?

What is the difference?

How many of those excess deaths are due to people not being able to get treatment for conditions that would have otherwise been treated but could not get into hospitals because they were only taking covid and Trauma Cases?