SARS-like virus spreading rapidly in China; cities quarantined; cases in US

[DMK]

@Konssurvative1

I’m not paying attention to what other countries are saying or doing…where did ya get that.

Perhaps you should.

[Konssurvative1]

Circles?

[WildRose]

As we’ve previously discussed I think it’s a serious problem, it’s just not a part of this discussion.

[Samm]

@SottoVoce

@westaussie

Would that perhaps get you an appointment with your medical registration board?

Perhaps. More than likely you’d have no patients. No one wants to hear someone is “guessing” about their health. I would never use the colloquial “best guess” in any professional situation. That could be talking with patients, families or colleagues. Even in a non-professional situation on an anonymous message board I wouldn’t use it.

You may not dare use the description “best guess” for your diagnosis and recommend treatment to your patients, but in fact, that is exactly what it is. An educated experienced guess is still a guess.

[SottoVoce]

@Samm

@SottoVoce

@westaussie

Would that perhaps get you an appointment with your medical registration board?

Perhaps. More than likely you’d have no patients. No one wants to hear someone is “guessing” about their health. I would never use the colloquial “best guess” in any professional situation. That could be talking with patients, families or colleagues. Even in a non-professional situation on an anonymous message board I wouldn’t use it.

You may not dare use the description “best guess” for your diagnosis and recommend treatment to your patients, but in fact, that is exactly what it is. An educated experienced guess is still a guess.

I’ll continue to disagree. You could chalk it up to semantics, but I don’t think guessing, blind or educated, is routine or typically accepted in medicine. There is one exception I can think of.

The overwhelming number of cases have a definite, established diagnosis. This may start with a broad differential, but it is narrowed to a specific diagnosis before treatment is initiated. (Treatment may occasionally begin before a specific diagnosis, but that situation is covered below.) There is no guess as to diagnosis or expected outcome.

There are times at which a specific diagnosis is not needed prior to beginning treatment. This occurs when the treatment is the same for several conditions. For instance, if someone comes in with “essential” hypertension (high blood pressure not caused by a specific treatable reason), you could continue to look for esoteric causes for their high blood pressure, but it would make zero difference as to treatment or expected outcome. Again, no guessing, just indifference.

The only time “guessing” comes into play is in truly emergent situations. If there is no time to make a narrow diagnosis, you treat first and worry about specifics later. For example, if someone is septic, you don’t wait to find a source and isolate a specific organism. They could potentially die in the time it takes to do that. You give broad spectrum antibiotics and resuscitate. After you’ve started treatment, you can worry about those specifics.

I really don’t know where the idea that medicine is just a bunch of guessing (educated or otherwise) comes from. It’s specific diagnoses, with specific treatments, risks and expected outcomes.

[WildRose]

Hilarious, you went to great lengths above to admit that often it’s very difficult to distinguish between a cold and flu and as s result we don’t have rally good data on just how effective anti virals are in treating the flu since we don’t test every patient before prescribing it.

There is always a level of uncertainty, sometimes greater, sometimes lesser and by definition the recommendations, treatments etc are exactly that, best guess.

[SottoVoce]

@WildRose

Hilarious, you went to great lengths above to admit that often it’s very difficult to distinguish between a cold and flu and as s result we don’t have rally good data on just how effective anti virals are in treating the flu since we don’t test every patient before prescribing it.

There is always a level of uncertainty, sometimes greater, sometimes lesser and by definition the recommendations, treatments etc are exactly that, best guess.

I said differentiation of the two based on initial symptoms can be difficult. The rest of the stuff you made up. Let’s see what I said:

@SottoVoce

Influenza is quite different from flu-like illnesses with flu-like symptoms (the “common cold”). Differentiating influenza from a common cold is not straightforward, especially in the early stages of illness.

@SottoVoce

Bottom line is people get lets of colds which can be hard to distinguish initially from influenza.

If you think the way we get “really good data” on a drug is by “testing every patient before prescribing it” you have zero idea how medications are approved and evaluated. Not going to waste my time on that one with you. We do have great data on Tamiflu by the way, I listed a Cochrane review and several additional studies. None of those required “testing every patient before prescribing it.” So, both your first and second statements are made up. Hilarious? Nope.

[WildRose]

I didn’t make anything up as your quotes show particularly when the other relevant quote is added.

@SottoVoce

@Konssurvative1

So does the FDA regulate Tamiflu and other anti viral to be used only in conjunction with a positive flu test, or do doctors just give it willy nilly as was described earlier?

Medications vary widely in their “approved” indications. I put “approved” in quotations because approved medications/medical devices/treatments can be used in situations in which they are not expressly approved (“off-label use”). That being said, if you use something off-label, you better be damned sure you can justify yourself because you’re a sitting duck if things go wrong. That being said, lots of medications are used off-label.

Getting back to Tamiflu (and generic equivalents), the FDA approval label states the indication is:

Treatment of uncomplicated acute illness due to influenza infection in patients ≥2 weeks of age who have been symptomatic for ≤48hrs. Prophylaxis of influenza in patients ≥1yr of age.

Two things though. There is no “rule” that states you have to have laboratory confirmed influenza. Clinical suspicion of influenza is enough to allow giving Tamiflu. The second is the line about prophylaxis (preventing) influenza. You could use that indication to justify just about anyone getting Tamiflu.

Why you can’t admit what I said is true though is quite revealing. I haven’t seen such a case of “God Syndrome” in a doc in a couple of decades.

The term “best guess” is perfectly correct no matter how much of a rash it gives you.

[Paul_Thomson]

The virus was created five years ago in the US and sold to China. They already have a vaccine. But they want people really desperate to take the vaccine, so they’ll let the death rate escalate and they’ll spread the virus worldwide first. And when the vaccine is injected, it won’t be just the vaccine you are getting injected into your body. These bio weapons manufacturers believe the world needs to be radically depopulated of humans. They don’t need your mouths to feed.

[WildRose]

@Paul_Thomson

The virus was created five years ago in the US and sold to China. They already have a vaccine. But they want people really desperate to take the vaccine, so they’ll let the death rate escalate and they’ll spread the virus worldwide first. And when the vaccine is injected, it won’t be just the vaccine you are getting injected into your body. These bio weapons manufacturers believe the world needs to be radically depopulated of humans. They don’t need your mouths to feed.

Well that’s a pretty whacked out theory… .

I wouldn’t be signing on to any conspiracy theories at this point.

There’s zero indications that this is a manufactured virus and certainly not from the US.

[Axxowiz]

Anyone know why Italy has all of a sudden gotten hit by the virus. I could be reading a bad source but 133 cases, 28 people in intensive care and two deaths. And from what I have seen they have quarantined off a dozen towns with over 50,000 people. They are treating this like some zombie pandemic I rarely if ever here of western nations quarantining whole towns.

Not trying to spread fear just wandering. I saw were Russia stopped all air travel with China, no Chinese are allowed in atm.

[Paul_Thomson]

@WildRose

@Paul_Thomson

The virus was created five years ago in the US and sold to China. They already have a vaccine. But they want people really desperate to take the vaccine, so they’ll let the death rate escalate and they’ll spread the virus worldwide first. And when the vaccine is injected, it won’t be just the vaccine you are getting injected into your body. These bio weapons manufacturers believe the world needs to be radically depopulated of humans. They don’t need your mouths to feed.

There’s zero indications that this is a manufactured virus and certainly not from the US.

Certainly, the MSM and social media are working hard to make that the case. However, more reliable sources have evidence that this virus was created in the US and sold to China.
https://banned.video/watch?id=5e4d9a96ceaa970024aa6fbf

[Samm]

Are trying to say that medicine is an exact science? Sorry, but I know better.

[Samm]

@Paul_Thomson

The virus was created five years ago in the US and sold to China. They already have a vaccine. But they want people really desperate to take the vaccine, so they’ll let the death rate escalate and they’ll spread the virus worldwide first. And when the vaccine is injected, it won’t be just the vaccine you are getting injected into your body. These bio weapons manufacturers believe the world needs to be radically depopulated of humans. They don’t need your mouths to feed.

I’m gunna let this one pass. I’m sure SixFoot has a meme that says it perfectly.

[NebraskaFootball]

Nothing to see here folks. Everything is fine. Just DHS looking to the internet for information on this potential pandemic.

https://twitter.com/ggreeneva/status/1232033090807226368?s=21

[GWH]

You and that twitter are assuming an awful lot.

[NebraskaFootball]

@GWH

You and that twitter are assuming an awful lot.

Fair point. But at a minimum the optics aren’t great.

[GWH]

The optics are exactly what was stated. It is bad timing for them to put up a paywall during a crisis when people are looking for ways to guard themselves. I’m thinking that you’re missing one of the points of Twitter. That is to voice your opinion of a matter that the masses can be informed.

This particular message was a shot at Johns Hopkins for being ■■■■■■■■ .

[WuWei]

Who in the hell is greg greene kitchen nerd?

[LucyLou]

Lol hey guys, Acting Secretary of Homeland Security Ken Cooch is right on top of things.
https://twitter.com/HomelandKen/status/1232026318801338368?s=20

Doesn’t he know he’s Acting Secretary of Homeland Security and is supposed to know where to call to get the data he needs?