I agree. I wrote right in that i meant the cop had a valid reason to pull this guy over, which it appears he did.
I agree that cops violate the law many times in enforcing their authority over citizens, in this case though i do not think he did.
Correct. They have all the legal authority they need without having more rights.
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He had a delegated authority as a tax collector to force the citizen to stand and deliver, yes.
First we change the laws, then we change the cops.
How do you propose “we” do that?
I don’t believe there are a large number of police in the force that would willingly watch you reach for a gun, and then allow that person to shoot at them first before they responded. I believe that number to be closer to 0.
Weird. I can’t shoot someone because I think they might be grabbing a gun. I can’t pull them over, threaten them, and put them in fear either.
We knew he was reaching?
Which video is that on?
Police are sworn peace officers.
While on duty and while off duty but in possession of their badge, they hold a special power delegated by the State to them.
Those that are not peace officers do not have that particular power delegated to them by the State.
As a civilian, I can detain somebody who has committed a felony crime in my sight or in the extreme, use deadly force to protect myself or others, in accordance with the law.
I cannot pursue a fleeing suspect and I cannot detain somebody who I suspect to have committed a crime, nor can I do other things that a sworn peace officer may do.
So no, they are NOT civilians just like me.
You and I are civilians.
Police are sworn peace officers.
And rights are not at issue.
Civilians and police have the same rights.
Police have delegated powers that civilians do not have.
This is a difference of delegated powers, not rights.
(And to reiterate, I continue to make no judgement as to the actions of the police in this particular situation.)
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There are two separate things going on there. No, you do not have the authority to stop a vehicle and detain the driver, but yes, you have the right to shoot someone (before they shoot at you) if you have reason to fear (the “reasonable man” concept) that they may kill or injure you if you don’t. That’s what the right of using lethal force for self-defense is all about.
No, “thinking” someone is reaching for a gun is not enough. It never has been.
It is if you have reason to think they will shoot you. Life is not like Matt Dillion on the street outside the Longbranch Saloon. You don’t need to wait until their gun has cleared the holster before you draw and shoot yours.
And in this case, we have a cop shouting “gun! gun! gun!” before any shots are fired. Who are you to say that he didn’t see the man pull his gun from its holster?
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We shouldn’t have any soldier under those rules of engagement, then again we shouldn’t have any weasel Dem Presidents to impose those dangerous rules. I would not advise anyone to join the military when there is a Democrat in the WH.
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One of the videos shows him reaching, but not what he was reaching for. But that wasn’t what I was questioning. I was questioning your rules of engagement. Only shoot if you’re being shot at. Reaching and or pointing a weapon is not shooting.
Reaching for or even pointing wasn’t within my RoE in Iraq. Shots fired with very few exceptions.
And in this story’s case maybe they could see the firearm and that he was clearly going for it. If that turns out to be true then changing the rules for cops wouldn’t have changed this outcome.
But we can all google and come up with multiple dozens or maybe even three digits of the number of cases where the cop “feared for his life” and no weapon was seen or even present.
Well explained.
Police are civilians. Your laundry list of delegated authorities does not change that fact.
Except that it is completely wrong.
They’ve convinced you
Police are civilians, other than that, that’s exactly what I said.
Police are civil servants, just like the trash collectors and DMV, only worse at their jobs.
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Who are you to say he did.
For cops, it always has been. And it’s feeling, not thinking.
