Of vice and men

[SixFoot]

There’s drunken moments and psychedelic epiphanies throughout the Bible.

There are no bad drugs, only bad uses for drugs.

[Guvnah]

@Optrader

That’s one of the reasons I believe it is sin. It’s an egregious waste of money that goes up in smoke, often at the expense of other things. Cigarettes, or drugs, or alcohol are funded before necessities for kids sometimes, and before God. Very poor stewardship of money to fund pure selfishness. It serves no purpose.

Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit?

When you deliberately do something that damages or desecrates your body, you are desecrating that temple.

[Optrader]

@Guvnah

@Optrader

That’s one of the reasons I believe it is sin. It’s an egregious waste of money that goes up in smoke, often at the expense of other things. Cigarettes, or drugs, or alcohol are funded before necessities for kids sometimes, and before God. Very poor stewardship of money to fund pure selfishness. It serves no purpose.

Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit?

When you deliberately do something that damages or desecrates your body, you are desecrating that temple.

That’s absolutely another reason, but this seems to be a touchy subject for some strange reason…

[Optrader]

@SixFoot

There’s drunken moments and psychedelic epiphanies throughout the Bible.

There are no bad drugs, only bad uses for drugs.

They’re not considered as good things though.

[SixFoot]

@Optrader

@SixFoot

There’s drunken moments and psychedelic epiphanies throughout the Bible.

There are no bad drugs, only bad uses for drugs.

They’re not considered as good things though.

That’s one opinion not shared by every Christian.

[Optrader]

@Borgia_dude

@Optrader

Cars do serve a purpose.

Buying a new car deprives your family of thousands of dollars that you could have used for them had you bought used. That was your argument about tobacco, right?

No, as usual with you, not quite.

[Optrader]

@SixFoot

@Optrader

@SixFoot

There’s drunken moments and psychedelic epiphanies throughout the Bible.

There are no bad drugs, only bad uses for drugs.

They’re not considered as good things though.

That’s one opinion not shared by every Christian.

There are lots of differing opinions among Christians about a lot of things in the Bible. List the “good” things that tobacco does for the body. List the benefits it provides for society. How about alcohol and illicit drugs? I believe there’s can reason these things are called vices.

[SixFoot]

Moses inhaled n,n-DMT from the burning Acacia Bush.

Thank God.

[Borgia_dude]

@Optrader

That’s one of the reasons I believe it is sin. It’s an egregious waste of money that goes up in smoke, often at the expense of other things. Cigarettes, or drugs, or alcohol are funded before necessities for kids sometimes, and before God. Very poor stewardship of money to fund pure selfishness. It serves no purpose.

Wouldn’t buying a new car instead of used kind of align here? It seems it would also be a poor stewardship of money, funding selfishness or vanity.

There seem to be a lot of things that people buy for themselves and not the family. Expensive cars are but the tip of the iceberg of this poor stewardship of money.

Would tobacco be ok if the person is fabulously wealthy and the money he pays for tobacco doesn’t impinge on his family money?

[Optrader]

@SixFoot

Moses inhaled n,n-DMT from the burning Acacia Bush.

Thank God.

Dang! Got me on that one…

[Piper]

@Optrader

There are lots of things that are unclean if themselves that Jews, and therefore Jesus, did not touch or do. He would have followed all the laws God gave regarding unclean things. Did he eat pork? No, of course he didn’t because it’s part of the Levitical law. There are some things that changed for New Testament Christians, but Jesus was still an Old Testament Jew.

"For John the Baptist has come eating no bread and drinking no wine and you say, “He has a demon. The Son of man has come eating and drinking, and you say, 'Behold, a glutton and a drunkard…!” Luke 7 I don’t think they would have accused Him of being a drunkard or winebibber if he had only drank grape juice.

[SixFoot]

Wasn’t Noah, chosen by God, also a raging alcoholic who likely taught his fellow survivors how to brew beer/wine?

[Piper]

@SixFoot

Wasn’t Noah, chosen by God, also a raging alcoholic who likely taught his fellow survivors how to brew beer/wine?

I don’t know about the raging alcoholic, but yes he did plant a vineyard and made wine.

Speaking about the uses, Proverbs 31 “Give strong drink to him who is perishing, and wine to those in bitter distress; let them drink and forget their poverty, and remember their misery no more.” There is proper uses for strong drink.

[Optrader]

@Borgia_dude

@Optrader

That’s one of the reasons I believe it is sin. It’s an egregious waste of money that goes up in smoke, often at the expense of other things. Cigarettes, or drugs, or alcohol are funded before necessities for kids sometimes, and before God. Very poor stewardship of money to fund pure selfishness. It serves no purpose.

Wouldn’t buying a new car instead of used kind of align here? It seems it would also be a poor stewardship of money, funding selfishness or vanity.

There seem to be a lot of things that people buy for themselves and not the family. Expensive cars are but the tip of the iceberg of this poor stewardship of money.

Would tobacco be ok if the person is fabulously wealthy and the money he pays for tobacco doesn’t impinge on his family money?

You either didn’t read, or chose to ignore my posts on wealth. It is not wealth by itself, or what a person does with their wealth that is the problem. It is when the accumulation of wealth or the things it buys is put ahead of God that is the problem. Yes, buying a car could be a problem, but buying a car is more a necessity in today’s America than a luxury. Rather then me listing all the possible legitimate useful and beneficial reasons that people buy cars for, how about you list all the legitimate, useful and beneficial reasons people buy tobacco for? I’m guessing your list would be much shorter and faster to type than mine…

[SixFoot]

As I understand it, one of Noah’s sons once walked in on him in a naked drunken stupor, and was cursed for it.

[Piper]

@SixFoot

Wasn’t Noah, chosen by God, also a raging alcoholic who likely taught his fellow survivors how to brew beer/wine?

Yes. Plenty of wine meant prosperity and blessing. “May God give you plenty of grain and wine,” was the blessing of Isaac upon Jacob. Genesis 27

[Optrader]

@SixFoot

Wasn’t Noah, chosen by God, also a raging alcoholic who likely taught his fellow survivors how to brew beer/wine?

The Bible listed one instance of Noah’s drunkeness, and also noted the unspecified bad consequence of that incident. Hardly solid evidence to conclude he was a raging drunk OR an example to demonstrate the benefits of drinking. It is possible for people to drink without becoming alcoholics. The question about vice and Jesus still remains unanswered.

[SixFoot]

@Optrader

@SixFoot

Wasn’t Noah, chosen by God, also a raging alcoholic who likely taught his fellow survivors how to brew beer/wine?

The Bible listed one instance of Noah’s drunkeness, and also noted the unspecified bad consequence of that incident. Hardly solid evidence to conclude he was a raging drunk OR an example to demonstrate the benefits of drinking. It is possible for people to drink without becoming alcoholics. The question about vice and Jesus still remains unanswered.

Vices are fine until they harm others. The Golden Rule, as it were.

[Optrader]

@Piper

@SixFoot

Wasn’t Noah, chosen by God, also a raging alcoholic who likely taught his fellow survivors how to brew beer/wine?

I don’t know about the raging alcoholic, but yes he did plant a vineyard and made wine.

Speaking about the uses, Proverbs 31 “Give strong drink to him who is perishing, and wine to those in bitter distress; let them drink and forget their poverty, and remember their misery no more.” There is proper uses for strong drink.

Proverbs 20:1 " WINE IS A MOCKER, STRONG DRINK IS RAGING: AND WHOSOEVER IS DECEIVED THEREBY IS NOT WISE."

There are no qualifiers to that scripture.

[Optrader]

@Piper

@Optrader

There are lots of things that are unclean if themselves that Jews, and therefore Jesus, did not touch or do. He would have followed all the laws God gave regarding unclean things. Did he eat pork? No, of course he didn’t because it’s part of the Levitical law. There are some things that changed for New Testament Christians, but Jesus was still an Old Testament Jew.

"For John the Baptist has come eating no bread and drinking no wine and you say, “He has a demon. The Son of man has come eating and drinking, and you say, 'Behold, a glutton and a drunkard…!” Luke 7 I don’t think they would have accused Him of being a drunkard or winebibber if he had only drank grape juice.

Yet they accused him of blasphemy, breaking the Sabbath, being a threat to the peace and other sins too and then crucified him. You believe they wouldn’t lie about him being a drunk? Why is that when EVERY OTHER ACCUSATION AGAINST HIM WAS A LIE?