North Korea threatens to cancel Trump-Kim summit


#81

No, we’re not living with it, which is why we are here.

We don’t have to invade to destroy their nuclear capability, that’s the reality you don’t seem to grasp.

There is no possibility Kim can survive, much less win if shooting starts. He may be a maniac and a blood thirsty tyrant but he’s not stupid enough to think he can.

He’s just following up on his father’s playbook attempting nuclear blackmail again and it has already failed.

He can’t move his conventional forces without us being able to target and quickly reduce them.

He can’t move any aircraft we can’t quickly put down

He will denuke of his own accord or it will be done for him. Even if the US was willing to live with it, neither the S. Koreans nor Japanese can so there’s only one of two ways this ends and only one of them ends with his survival.


#82

You have no idea what he thinks or cares about, you’re just projecting.


#83

That’s my biggest fear - that a non nation state who MAD does not apply- will destroy a city in this country because the norks sell the tech or weapons.

I have to agree with we on removing them one way or another but what a mess that would be _ and then what about Iran and Pakistan?


#84

The Indians are not a worry. Pakistan could go bad fast if the gov’t falls. In such a case we’d have no choice but to do everything in our power to destroy their nuclear arsenal.


#85

I think it’s a safe bet.


#86

Did I say India? I thought I said Iran. Anyway, we agree on this.


#87

You are living with it, which is why Trump is floating “talks”, not missile strikes.

You seem to be forgetting the mutual defense treaty. You can’t start a war without the Chinese agreeing to it, good luck with that.

He won’t denuke, you won’t attack. Watch.


#88

It’s too late to forcefully remove them. Keeping the pressure on with sanctions may or may not hasten a collapse, but it will certainly lead to hundreds of thousands or millions of innocents starving to death.

I don’t think the Norks would be stupid enough to sell an intact nuke (how’d they even transfer it?) or dirty bomb materials to ISIS, but that would be worst case.

Pakistan is what kept Obama up at night. I think they’re potentially more dangerous than N.Korea given the risks of an Islamic fundie uprising, but we shall see.


#89

My fault, long night.

India and PK each developed nukes as a deterrent against one another and are regional opposing forces so I tend to see them as a pair just like the US/Russia during the cold war.

Iran will have to be stopped. We won’t allow a nuclear armed Iran and neither will the Saudis or Israelis.

The Eurpoeans are always heavily conflicted with respect to Iran because of all the business they do with them but they are going to have to act with us to try and force an end to their program that avoids an all out war.

In the last three years though Iran has become incredibly bold and has spent most of the 150bn (or more) that we gave them as part of the Iran deal to accelerate their own modernization and increased military capabilities and to expand their military footprint in ways we’ve not seen in the modern era.


#90

I tend to agree with this. Especially now that China has recommitted to being a strong ally of NK. They are shuttling goods into the North daily now. Which I suspect may have been Kim’s play all along.

Reclaim China’s support and backing. Blame continued American aggression and hostilities for walking away. Maintain nuclear armed status. The kicker is that China also has been receiving some significant concessions from us as well during this period, because of the perceived relaxation on the Korean Peninsula.

It seriously looks like Trump has been worked over well by two foreign heads of state. We shall see if he can reclaim any advantage or progress things in our favor.

I also genuinely wonder how much our backing out of the Iran deal played a role here. :thinking:


#91

The only reason we’ve been floating talks instead of launching missiles is the fact Kim started the outreach.

We’re not living with the status quo in any way so I don’t know why you keep repeating it. We’re doing everything we can to bring the status quo to an end.

China cannot afford to go to war with the US. Doing so would collapse their own economy.


#92

Yeah the Chinese easing off the economic pressure isn’t exactly a good sign if you want N.Korea to denuke.

Xi is a brutal dictator, but there’s no denying he has a long-term plan in mind. Trump on the other hand can’t see past next week.

Withdrawing from the JCPOA with no alternative ready to go will be seen as a huge mistake in more ways than one.


#93

You know we don’t have an alternate direction already planned out?

When did you start attending cabinet meetings?


#94

Started? The N.Korean regime has been desperate to get the US to come to the table for decades. Again, the US used to insist on preconditions being met before having a sitdown, Trump changed the conditions here not Kim.

Everything you can short of war, yes. The status quo.

Nuclear powers can’t afford to go to war with eachother period. Truman tested their resolve re:Korea before, how’d that pan out.


#95

Yes, no replacement plan has been written or put forth.

You were close to coming to an agreement for a follow-up plan to bolster the JCPOA and fill in the gaps, but Trump nixed it. Now there’s nothing.


#96

Yes started. Kim started the outreach when it became obvious We weren’t backing down this time to the blackmail.

We have preconditions, in case you missed it the denuclearization of N. Korea is the precondition. Without it there will be nothing to negotiate.


#97

Time.

10 characters.


#98

No, there is no precondition. Demilitarisation is the goal.

Obama and GWB both had denuclearisation as the precondition for talks, Trump did away with that.


#99

You have absolutely no idea what has or hasn’t been done. All we know is that nothing official has been made public.

What there is now is the Euro’s scrambling and talking with the Iranians to find something that will work.


#100

Denuclearisation is the goal, rather.

Damn edit button disappearing.