More obstruction

[johnwk2]

@BlueTex

Now that’s odd. You see, I have been going over my copy of the “HOUSE RULES AND MANUAL” given to every member of Congress, and under that section which deals with “Inception of Impeachment proceeding in the House” I cannot find rules about an “impeachment inquiry” or rules allowing what is not called an “impeachment inquiry”.

JWK

@WorldWatcher

@BlueTex

He’s referring to the Jefferson’s Manual traditionally incorporated into the enabling legislation for the house rules… The Robert’s Rules of Order for the house…

Thank you.
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And under those rules I still cannot find anything about an “impeachment inquiry” or rules allowing what is now called an “impeachment inquiry”.

The only applicable rules I find are those having to do with “Inception of Impeachment proceeding in the House” , and they do not seem to conform to what is now taking place, i.e.,:

In the House various events have been credited with setting an impeachment in motion: charges made on the floor on the responsibilityofaMemberorDelegate(II,1303;III,2342, 2400, 2469; VI, 525, 526, 528, 535, 536); charges preferred by a memorial, which is usually referred to a committee for examination (III, 2364, 2491, 2494, 2496, 2499, 2515; VI, 543); a resolution introduced by a Member and referred to a committee (Apr. 15, 1970, p. 11941; Oct. 23, 1973, p. 34873); a message from the President (III, 2294, 2319; VI, 498); charges transmitted from the legislature of a State (III, 2469) or territory (III, 2487) or from a grand jury (III, 2488); or facts developed and reported by an investigating committee of the House (III, 2399, 2444). In the 93d Congress, the Vice President sought to initiate an investigation by the House of charges against him of possibly impeachable offenses. The Speaker and the House took no action on the request because the matter was pending in the courts and the offenses did not relate to activities during the Vice President’s term of office (Sept. 25, 1973, p. 31368; III, 2510 (wherein the Committee on the Judiciary, to which the matter had been referred by privileged resolution, reported that the Vice President could not be impeached for acts or omissions committed before his term of office)). On the other hand, in 1826 the Vice President’s request that the House investigate charges against his prior official conduct as Secretary of War was referred, on motion, to a select committee (III, 1736). On September 9, 1998, an independent counsel transmitted to the House under 28 U.S.C. 595© a communication containing evidence of alleged impeachable offenses by the President.TheHouseadoptedaprivilegedresolutionreportedbytheCommittee on Rules referring the communication to the Committee on the Judiciary, restricting Members’ access to the communication, and restricting access to committee meetings and hearings on the communication (H. Res. 525, Sept. 11, 1998, p. 20020). Later, the House adopted a privileged resolution reported by the Committee on the Judiciary authorizing an impeachment inquirybythatcommittee(H.Res.581,Oct.8,1998,p.24679). A direct proposition to impeach is a question of high privilege in the House…. Etc.

Note the term “privileged resolution” and that a direct proposition to impeach is a question of “high privilege” in the House.

JWK

[WorldWatcher]

@johnwk2

In the House various events have been credited with setting an impeachment in motion: charges made on the floor on the responsibilityofaMemberorDelegate(II,1303;III,2342, 2400, 2469; VI, 525, 526, 528, 535, 536); charges preferred by a memorial, which is usually referred to a committee for examination (III, 2364, 2491, 2494, 2496, 2499, 2515; VI, 543); a resolution introduced by a Member and referred to a committee (Apr. 15, 1970, p. 11941; Oct. 23, 1973, p. 34873); a message from the President (III, 2294, 2319; VI, 498); charges transmitted from the legislature of a State (III, 2469) or territory (III, 2487) or from a grand jury (III, 2488); or facts developed and reported by an investigating committee of the House (III, 2399, 2444). In the 93d Congress, the Vice President sought to initiate an investigation by the House of charges against him of possibly impeachable offenses. The Speaker and the House took no action on the request because the matter was pending in the courts and the offenses did not relate to activities during the Vice President’s term of office (Sept. 25, 1973, p. 31368; III, 2510 (wherein the Committee on the Judiciary, to which the matter had been referred by privileged resolution, reported that the Vice President could not be impeached for acts or omissions committed before his term of office)). On the other hand, in 1826 the Vice President’s request that the House investigate charges against his prior official conduct as Secretary of War was referred, on motion, to a select committee (III, 1736). On September 9, 1998, an independent counsel transmitted to the House under 28 U.S.C. 595© a communication containing evidence of alleged impeachable offenses by the President.TheHouseadoptedaprivilegedresolutionreportedbytheCommittee on Rules referring the communication to the Committee on the Judiciary, restricting Members’ access to the communication, and restricting access to committee meetings and hearings on the communication (H. Res. 525, Sept. 11, 1998, p. 20020). Later, the House adopted a privileged resolution reported by the Committee on the Judiciary authorizing an impeachment inquirybythatcommittee(H.Res.581,Oct.8,1998,p.24679). A direct proposition to impeach is a question of high privilege in the House…. Etc.

Note the term “privileged resolution” and that a direct proposition to impeach is a question of “high privilege” in the House.

JWK

Correct, articles of impeachment of course are a privileged resolution and is something actionable and required by the house as a body.

Similar to the Senate being actionable as a body to advise and consent on SCOTUS nominations and not something for the Majority Leader to take sole responsibility for himself to decide for the Senate.

But guess what we are not at the articles of impeachment state yet, we are at the investigative state. Now read your own paragraph:

" In the House various events have been credited with setting an impeachment in motion: charges made on the floor on the responsibilityofaMemberorDelegate(II,1303;III,2342, 2400, 2469; VI, 525, 526, 528, 535, 536); charges preferred by a memorial, which is usually referred to a committee for examination (III, 2364, 2491, 2494, 2496, 2499, 2515; VI, 543); a resolution introduced by a Member and referred to a committee (Apr. 15, 1970, p. 11941; Oct. 23, 1973, p. 34873); a message from the President (III, 2294, 2319; VI, 498); charges transmitted from the legislature of a State (III, 2469) or territory (III, 2487) or from a grand jury (III, 2488); or facts developed and reported by an investigating committee of the House (III, 2399, 2444)."

Here let me make the sentence easier to read for some: " **In the House various events have been credited with setting an impeachment in motion: < < S N I P > > or facts developed and reported by an investigating committee of the House (III, 2399, 2444)."

We are at the investigation stage, not the articles of impeachment stage.
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[Phaedrus]

@Oldandtired

I’m sure you were calling for Obama’s impeachment for killing a US citizen without a trail and when he bypassed congress and created DACA.? If you did all this than show me and I’ll believe your not just a partisan hack who puts party over country.

a. Sorry, but I haven’t been on this board long enough to show you the history of my political beliefs. And clearly, just telling you is insufficient.

b. Really? al-Awlaki? That’s the hill you want to die on? Something tells me you don’t really give a damn about him, his son, or his daughter.

c. DACA is an excellent example of executive overreach. It’s not an impeachable offense. If it is, perhaps YOU can show me where you’ve lobbied for Trump’s impeachment over the “emergency declaration”.

d. And finally, why is every jacked up thing Trump does excused with “but Obama”? Why can’t you justify his behavior on its own merits? Perhaps because that’s a tough sell?

[johnwk2]

@WorldWatcher

@johnwk2

In the House various events have been credited with setting an impeachment in motion: charges made on the floor on the responsibilityofaMemberorDelegate(II,1303;III,2342, 2400, 2469; VI, 525, 526, 528, 535, 536); charges preferred by a memorial, which is usually referred to a committee for examination (III, 2364, 2491, 2494, 2496, 2499, 2515; VI, 543); a resolution introduced by a Member and referred to a committee (Apr. 15, 1970, p. 11941; Oct. 23, 1973, p. 34873); a message from the President (III, 2294, 2319; VI, 498); charges transmitted from the legislature of a State (III, 2469) or territory (III, 2487) or from a grand jury (III, 2488); or facts developed and reported by an investigating committee of the House (III, 2399, 2444). In the 93d Congress, the Vice President sought to initiate an investigation by the House of charges against him of possibly impeachable offenses. The Speaker and the House took no action on the request because the matter was pending in the courts and the offenses did not relate to activities during the Vice President’s term of office (Sept. 25, 1973, p. 31368; III, 2510 (wherein the Committee on the Judiciary, to which the matter had been referred by privileged resolution, reported that the Vice President could not be impeached for acts or omissions committed before his term of office)). On the other hand, in 1826 the Vice President’s request that the House investigate charges against his prior official conduct as Secretary of War was referred, on motion, to a select committee (III, 1736). On September 9, 1998, an independent counsel transmitted to the House under 28 U.S.C. 595© a communication containing evidence of alleged impeachable offenses by the President.TheHouseadoptedaprivilegedresolutionreportedbytheCommittee on Rules referring the communication to the Committee on the Judiciary, restricting Members’ access to the communication, and restricting access to committee meetings and hearings on the communication (H. Res. 525, Sept. 11, 1998, p. 20020). Later, the House adopted a privileged resolution reported by the Committee on the Judiciary authorizing an impeachment inquirybythatcommittee(H.Res.581,Oct.8,1998,p.24679). A direct proposition to impeach is a question of high privilege in the House…. Etc.

Note the term “privileged resolution” and that a direct proposition to impeach is a question of “high privilege” in the House.

JWK

Correct, articles of impeachment of course are a privileged resolution and is something actionable and required by the house as a body.

Similar to the Senate being actionable as a body to advise and consent on SCOTUS nominations and not something for the Majority Leader to take sole responsibility for himself to decide for the Senate.

But guess what we are not at the articles of impeachment state yet, we are at the investigative state. Now read your own paragraph:

" In the House various events have been credited with setting an impeachment in motion: charges made on the floor on the responsibilityofaMemberorDelegate(II,1303;III,2342, 2400, 2469; VI, 525, 526, 528, 535, 536); charges preferred by a memorial, which is usually referred to a committee for examination (III, 2364, 2491, 2494, 2496, 2499, 2515; VI, 543); a resolution introduced by a Member and referred to a committee (Apr. 15, 1970, p. 11941; Oct. 23, 1973, p. 34873); a message from the President (III, 2294, 2319; VI, 498); charges transmitted from the legislature of a State (III, 2469) or territory (III, 2487) or from a grand jury (III, 2488); or facts developed and reported by an investigating committee of the House (III, 2399, 2444)."

Here let me make the sentence easier to read for some: " **In the House various events have been credited with setting an impeachment in motion: < < S N I P > > or facts developed and reported by an investigating committee of the House (III, 2399, 2444)."

We are at the investigation stage, not the articles of impeachment stage.
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Well, aren’t you the clever one, putting the cart before the horse?

Try reading that “sentence” and the “rules” again … very, very slowly.

To the best of my knowledge, there has been no formal charge or charges presented in the House, by resolution or otherwise, describing the alleged and actionable impeachable offense, or offenses, and thus, may formally justify a legitimate investigation into those alleged impeachable charges followed by the drawing up of Articles of Impeachment if found to have credibility…

Nancy Pelosi has taken it upon herself, to start an impeachment investigation, without a formal charge or resolution being made in the House describing the alleged impeachable offense or offenses.

Note the term “privileged resolution” is tied to impeachment, and that a direct proposition to impeach is a question of “high privilege” in the House. When was the formal complaint of an impeachable offense filed in the House, and by who?

JWK

We all know who the whistleblower is. It’s shifty Schiff in drag.

[Oldandtired]

Maybe when you start holding your own side to the same standard you want me to hold my side to I’ll give a darn. Until you do you are going to hear about your double standard.

[FloridaYankee]

@johnwk2

The only thing with respect to this is “Inception of Impeachment proceeding in the House”.

Page two;

crsreports.congress.gov/product/pdf/download/R/R45769/R45769.pdf/

Regardless of what might instigate an inquiry into whether impeachment is warranted, there are normally three formal stages of congressional action. First, an impeachment inquiry is authorized, and this is most often accomplished through the adoption of a simple resolution (H.Res.___) directing the Judiciary Committee to investigate an official. Second, the committee conducts its investigation, prepares articles of impeachment, and reports them to the House. Third, the full House considers the articles of impeachment and, if they are adopted, appoints managers from the committee to present the articles in the Senate. As discussed in detail below, the House relies upon many of its usual procedures to consider the resolution explicitly initiating an investigation, conduct the investigation, and consider the articles of impeachment.5

[STODR]

PolitiFact - Rep. Lynn Jenkins blames Harry Reid for 'do-nothing Senate'

here is a pretty good article that can be applied to both sides.

[Phaedrus]

So, no, you can’t justify Trump. Got it.

[westaussie]

Most of the questions you posed have an underlying premise that what Trump does and says do not have an impact in other places in the world. That is not correct as Trump’s words and actions do have consequences beyond the USA.

With the greatest of respect I suggest you do some research of Australia’s commitment to supporting the USA in armed conflicts post the Second World War. Of course Australia’s population is nowhere near the size of the USA’s so our commitment cannot be equal in size to that of the USA. Similar research would be well placed on Australia and China trade. A trade war between China and the USA adversely impacts other countries.

I am sure that a significant number of posters have listened to Trump saying that he has sexually assaulted women.

With respect to Trump’s promise that Mexico would pay for the wall it speaks to the integrity of D Trump. Again with the greatest of respect you might like to investigate the refugee exchange that is happening during D Trump’s presidency between Australia and the US.

[westaussie]

Again I will point out that it is demonstrably untrue that other countries have not supported the USA in armed conflicts post the Second World War. And to state the obvious a country with a population of around 25 million cannot have the same size commitment as one with a population of more than 300 million.

[johnwk2]

@FloridaYankee

@johnwk2

The only thing with respect to this is “Inception of Impeachment proceeding in the House”.

Page two;

crsreports.congress.gov/product/pdf/download/R/R45769/R45769.pdf/

Regardless of what might instigate an inquiry into whether impeachment is warranted, there are normally three formal stages of congressional action. First, an impeachment inquiry is authorized, and this is most often accomplished through the adoption of a simple resolution (H.Res.___) directing the Judiciary Committee to investigate an official. Second, the committee conducts its investigation, prepares articles of impeachment, and reports them to the House. Third, the full House considers the articles of impeachment and, if they are adopted, appoints managers from the committee to present the articles in the Senate. As discussed in detail below, the House relies upon many of its usual procedures to consider the resolution explicitly initiating an investigation, conduct the investigation, and consider the articles of impeachment.5

When was the formal complaint of an alleged impeachable offense filed in the House, and by who?

Nancy Pelosi seems to have ignored the House Rules and has taken it upon herself, to start an impeachment investigation, without a formal charge or resolution being made in the House describing the alleged impeachable offense or offenses.

On Wednesday, July 17, 2019, the House of Representatives voted to kill an impeachment resolution. So where is the new resolution or formal complaint of an alleged impeachable offense which would trigger an investigation?

JWK

Elizabeth Warren wants elderly American citizens, who paid into Medicare all their lives, to surrender their healthcare to the millions of foreigners who have invaded America’s borders.

[BlueTex]

@johnwk2

When was the formal complaint of an alleged impeachable offense filed in the House, and by who?

Nancy Pelosi seems to have ignored the House Rules and has taken it upon herself, to start an impeachment investigation, without a formal charge or resolution being made in the House describing the alleged impeachable offense or offenses.

On Wednesday, July 17, 2019, the House of Representatives voted to kill an impeachment resolution. So where is the new resolution or formal complaint of an alleged impeachable offense which would trigger an investigation?

JWK

You should definitely file suit… I’m sure the courts are going to enforce Jefferson’s Manual

[johnwk2]

@BlueTex

@johnwk2

When was the formal complaint of an alleged impeachable offense filed in the House, and by who?

Nancy Pelosi seems to have ignored the House Rules and has taken it upon herself, to start an impeachment investigation, without a formal charge or resolution being made in the House describing the alleged impeachable offense or offenses.

On Wednesday, July 17, 2019, the House of Representatives voted to kill an impeachment resolution. So where is the new resolution or formal complaint of an alleged impeachable offense which would trigger an investigation?

JWK

You should definitely file suit… I’m sure the courts are going to enforce Jefferson’s Manual

To the best of my knowledge there has been no formal complaint made in the House alleging President Trump has committed an impeachable offense as required under the House Rules, in order to proceed to an investigation.

Nancy Pelosi has decided to use the Speakership to go on a fishing expedition to find or create an impeachable offense. And this is not in compliance with the House Rues. The House of Representatives is not the personal tool of the Speaker of the House to be used to attack a political opponent or our President.

JWK

They are not “liberals” or “progressives”. The Democrat Party Leadership is infested with communists and socialists who delude, lure and addict our nations needy with free government cheese.

[WorldWatcher]

@BlueTex

You should definitely file suit… I’m sure the courts are going to enforce Jefferson’s Manual

Why would they need to do anything since that source specifically says " or facts developed and reported by an investigating committee of the House"?

We are at the investigating committee state not the article of impeachment phase. Current investigations will be reported to the Judiciary Committee where (if warranted) they will draft articles of impeachment to submit to the House as a body in whole.

" In the House various events have been credited with setting an impeachment in motion : charges made on the floor on the responsibilityofaMemberorDelegate(II,1303;III,2342, 2400, 2469; VI, 525, 526, 528, 535, 536); charges preferred by a memorial, which is usually referred to a committee for examination (III, 2364, 2491, 2494, 2496, 2499, 2515; VI, 543); a resolution introduced by a Member and referred to a committee (Apr. 15, 1970, p. 11941; Oct. 23, 1973, p. 34873); a message from the President (III, 2294, 2319; VI, 498); charges transmitted from the legislature of a State (III, 2469) or territory (III, 2487) or from a grand jury (III, 2488); or facts developed and reported by an investigating committee of the House (III, 2399, 2444). "
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[BlueTex]

@johnwk2

To the best of my knowledge there has been no formal complaint made in the House alleging President Trump has committed an impeachable offense as required under the House Rules, in order to proceed to an investigation.

Jefferson’s Manual is not the house rules…

[johnwk2]

@BlueTex

@johnwk2

To the best of my knowledge there has been no formal complaint made in the House alleging President Trump has committed an impeachable offense as required under the House Rules, in order to proceed to an investigation.

Jefferson’s Manual is not the house rules…

Jefferson’s Manual is contained in and part of the publication given to every House Member, which also contains the House Rules.

To the best of my knowledge there has been no formal complaint made in the House alleging President Trump has committed an impeachable offense as required under the House Rules, in order to proceed to an investigation.

Nancy Pelosi has decided to use the Speakership to go on a fishing expedition to find or create an impeachable offense. And this is not in compliance with the House Rues. The House of Representatives is not the personal tool of the Speaker of the House to be used to attack a political opponent or our President.

JWK

They are not “liberals” or “progressives”. The Democrat Party Leadership is infested with communists and socialists who delude, lure and addict our nations needy with free government cheese.

[BlueTex]

@johnwk2

Jefferson’s Manual is contained in and part of the publication given to every House Member, which also contains the House Rules.

Jefferson’s Manual is parliamentarians guide to the house, nothing more. It has no legal force on how the house may conduct itself. Members are free to challenge the impeachment inquiry with the parliamentarian…

[johnwk2]

@BlueTex

@johnwk2

Jefferson’s Manual is contained in and part of the publication given to every House Member, which also contains the House Rules.

Jefferson’s Manual is parliamentarians guide to the house, nothing more. It has no legal force on how the house may conduct itself. Members are free to challenge the impeachment inquiry with the parliamentarian…

Jefferson’s Manual is contained in and part of the publication given to every House Member, which also contains the House Rules.

To the best of my knowledge there has been no formal complaint made in the House alleging President Trump has committed an impeachable offense as required under the House Rules, in order to proceed to an investigation.

Nancy Pelosi has decided to use the Speakership to go on a fishing expedition to find or create an impeachable offense. And this is not in compliance with the House Rues. The House of Representatives is not the personal tool of the Speaker of the House to be used to attack a political opponent or our President.

JWK

They are not “liberals” or “progressives”. The Democrat Party Leadership is infested with communists and socialists who delude, lure and addict our nations needy with free government cheese.

[BlueTex]

@johnwk2

Jefferson’s Manual is contained in and part of the publication given to every House Member, which also contains the House Rules.

They also get maps and guides to the nearest restrooms… Still doesn’t make them the house rules…

[johnwk2]

@BlueTex

@johnwk2

Jefferson’s Manual is contained in and part of the publication given to every House Member, which also contains the House Rules.

They also get maps and guides to the nearest restrooms… Still doesn’t make them the house rules…

Stop being obtuse. The House Rules are the House Rules. I know the Democrat Party socialist Leadership does not recognize the rule of law. But that is an entirely different subject. Here we are talking about abiding by the House Rules.

JWK

The unavoidable truth is, our Fifth Column democrat political leaders’ plan for “free” college tuition will be paid for by confiscating and redistributing the paychecks of millions of college graduates who worked for and paid their own way through college and are now trying to finance their own economic needs.