Looks like Brexit is happening Queen agrees to suspend parliament

[CanadianJudo]

Russia aggression is a very serious thing they have invaded two European countries in the last decade (Georgia and Ukraine)

[CanadianJudo]

a united western world destabilization in Europe help no one other then Russia. since they are in a global chess game between the three super-powers Russia, America, China.

[Samm]

@TommyLucchese

@Samm

And? Again, we are talking about the EU.

They’re just different interactions of the same organization. The Treaty of Maastricht turned the EEC into the EU the same way that the Treaty of Rome turned the ECSC into the EEC.

It doesn’t matter, we are talking about the EU. If those other manifestations were around and having an effect prior to the EU, they can exist if the EU dissolves. It doesn’t mean that war will result.

[Samm]

@TommyLucchese

@Samm

I do not disagree that that is why they came up with the idea, what I said was that it was not necessary to preserve peace on the Continent. I sincerely doubt that the low countries of Europe would have been overrun by one of their neighbors had the EU not been established. There was no threat on the horizon except from Russia and that was pretty toothless considering the USSR had just dissolved

The Low Countries were steamrolled dozens of times over the centuries, pretty much every time there was a European war. They pretty much only exist because the British Empire insisted on neutral countries who were not France or Germany on the eastern end of the English Channel, where an enemy could bottle up the Royal Navy.

I know, and their fear is understandable, but that still does not mean that the EU is responsible for the lack of war on the Continent.

[Samm]

@CanadianJudo

Russia aggression is a very serious thing they have invaded two European countries in the last decade (Georgia and Ukraine)

Reread my post. I am referring to the when the EU was established. Russia under Putin is more dangerous than they were in ‘93.

[TommyLucchese]

@Samm

I know, and their fear is understandable, but that still does not mean that the EU is responsible for the lack of war on the Continent.

You’re drawing a distinction where virtually none exists. The only big difference between the EEC and the EU was the introduction of the euro.

[westaussie]

Don’t forget this is the person who used (Great) Britain when discussing the referendum to leave the EU or to stay and has quoted the 1st of October in the discussion on here.

[Samm]

@TommyLucchese

@Samm

I know, and their fear is understandable, but that still does not mean that the EU is responsible for the lack of war on the Continent.

You’re drawing a distinction where virtually none exists. The only big difference between the EEC and the EU was the introduction of the euro.

The contention made by some is that without the EU, war could return to the Continent. I am merely pointing out that there was no war on the Continent for 48 years prior to the EU, so it is not reasonable to assume that if the EU dissolved, war would return. That is nothing more than fear mongering to bolster the arguments to preserve the EU.

[mobiusptc]

@Samm

@TommyLucchese

@Samm

I know, and their fear is understandable, but that still does not mean that the EU is responsible for the lack of war on the Continent.

You’re drawing a distinction where virtually none exists. The only big difference between the EEC and the EU was the introduction of the euro.

The contention made by some is that without the EU, war could return to the Continent. I am merely pointing out that there was no war on the Continent for 48 years prior to the EU, so it is not reasonable to assume that if the EU dissolved, war would return. That is nothing more than fear mongering to bolster the arguments to preserve the EU.

then try to understand the history of the EU and why

1. there cannot be a retrograde to the EEC.
2. The EU ( in its various stages for the past 50 years) is the reason there hasn’t been conflict on the mainland
   its not fear mongering, it is understanding 500+ years of different distinct culture and history of the mainland

[WuWei]

“Subject” is a mentality embedded in DNA.

[Happyhappyjoyjoy]

What you have to understand in all this is that Johnson has no desire to leave the EU without a deal, even he isn’t that stupid.

He’s never been a true believer, Brexit has only ever been a vehicle for his ambition. Unlike farage and the ERG faith militant, Johnson knows the damage no deal brexit would inflict.

He asked HRH to prorogue parliament to smoke out the Tory remain rebels and force their hand, so they will have to vote against him in a vote of no confidence.

He then positions the Tories as the last, best hope for brexit, the living embodiment of the people’s struggle against THE ESTABLISHMENT, never mind the fact there is no one more establishment than he is.

He cuts a deal with Farage so the brexit party stay away from Tory marginals and instead contest Labour’s brexit northern heartland, by giving him a cabinet seat - minister for fishing and racism or some other bollocks.

The Tories win a hundred seat majority and then Johnson can “renogotiate” with the EU and cut a deal that is exactly the same as May’s, except with a border down the Irish sea. The DUP are irrelevant and the ERG are free to wail and nash their teeth because Johnson will still have enough votes to get it through.

Of course, that eventually leads to a reunited Irland and possibly another successful Indyref in Scotland, but no one gives a toss about the colonies any more. And Johnson fulfils his destiny and rules over rUK as is his birthright.

And that’s the best possible outcome that is realistic.

Its a complete shambles.

[TommyLucchese]

@Samm

The contention made by some is that without the EU, war could return to the Continent. I am merely pointing out that there was no war on the Continent for 48 years prior to the EU, so it is not reasonable to assume that if the EU dissolved, war would return. That is nothing more than fear mongering to bolster the arguments to preserve the EU.

No you’re just doing that “I’m technically correct the best kind of correct thing” when in reality something of the type has existed since the end of WW2.

[westaussie]

Except it wouldn’t be the UK. In fact it wouldn’t even be Great Britain.

[westaussie]

Apparently according to one particular poster, it was (Great) Britain that participated in the referendum.

[TommyLucchese]

@westaussie

Apparently according to one particular poster, it was (Great) Britain that participated in the referendum.

Well Americans as a whole are baffled by the whole England/Great Britain/United Kingdom thing.

[Safiel]

United Kingdom = Great Britain + Northern Ireland

Great Britain = England + Scotland + Wales

England = England

Simple.

[westaussie]

I am sure that any poster who wasn’t aware of the differences will take particular note.

Would you like to throw in an explanation of what the British and Irish Lions are?

[Bill.in.PA]

As I have noted before, there are only two reasonable alternatives to the Brexit question: leave without a deal or remain. For background see:

Is a Brexit deal even possible?

I find it interesting watching Brexit news from the other side of the Atlantic, but I have never seen how any significant deal is really possible. The reason for Britain leaving the EU was because of gripes about immigration, regulations, finances, etc. The problem is any real change in immigration, regulation, finances, etc. is going to require approval of all 27 remaining members of the EU since these are a considered core values of the EU. That means that Latvia or half of Belgium could ef…

Any real change to address Britain’s concerns would violate the EU’s founding principles and would require the agreement of every member state in the EU, which is essentially impossible. If you doubt this statement consider that the French-speaking half of Belgium nearly derailed the Canada-EU trade agreement in 2016:

Belgium Walloons block key EU Ceta trade deal with Canada

Right now, the probability of remaining appears to be remote since it would require immediate action by parliament. A no-deal Brexit is certainly the most likely outcome.

[westaussie]

It was the idiots within the ERG in the Conservative Party that voted against T May’s deal.

[Nemesis]

@Safiel

United Kingdom = Great Britain + Northern Ireland

Great Britain = England + Scotland + Wales

England = England

Simple.

In England these days we would say “simples”…

I am British but consider myself an Englishman.

LOL someone at work once called me a UK person, she thought that was a nationality