Let us be clear. President Trump cannot shut down the federal government!


#798

That she now provide him funding for a wall that the majority of people don’t want that we were told was going to be paid for by someone else. You can try to church it up with some word salad about a 35 year old promise, but it doesn’t change any of the facts. I’ll explain the facts to you again, so you can ignore them again and top it off by tying to tell me you are being more objective about it and more “in the here and now” than I am, all while not seeing the forest for the trees.

You said this to me earlier:

Its not political partisan deflection to try to help you understand that you have been played for the last 35 years, and not by who you think it was. Even if I granted you that 35 years ago, Democrat Leadership made an agreement (hardly the here and now, by the way), you would have to be an idiot not to recognize that in the resulting 35 years, Republicans have had multiple opportunities to make good on that issue without the help of Democrats. Making note of that isn’t ignoring the here and now, its realizing facts. Now, I recognize that those facts don’t work for the picture you are trying to paint, but spare me the here and now lesson when you have to go back 35 years in order for blame to sit where you are trying to place it.

Now that we have that covered, lets look at some other facts. The border is safer and more secure now than it has been in 40 years…without any added physical barrier. Hell, you decided to dredge up Yuma as some sort of example of what you are trying to prove. Unfortunately, it doesn’t prove YOUR point, it proves MINE. The reduction in border crossings there had nothing to do with adding a single inch of barrier…the sheriff simply added more manpower and the problem dropped by 40%. Imagine that, right? Less illegal activity, WITHOUT a new wall? That has to be some sort of mistake, because you keep telling me that a wall is the only way to make good on that ages old promise you keep harping on.

As for those that have come to harm at the hands of illegals…while unfortunate, we need to be honest about the data…some of those very illegals are part of the far larger problem of overstayed visas, which a wall isn’t going to do squat about.


#799

I see you have not been paying attention, or are too young to recall historical happenings. President Trump has asked the Democrat Party Leadership to make good on a 35 year old promise to secure our border in return for granting 2.5 million illegal entrants amnesty.

The irrefutable truth is, the 2.5 million illegal entrants were granted amnesty back in 1986, but to this day, 35 years later, our border is yet to be secured against illegal border crossings. And as of a few days ago, Nancy Botox Pelosi emphatically stated she refuses to pass a bill in the House to fund securing our border in a manner which prevents illegal border crossings, and in particular, provides funding to build physical barriers where the border terrain requires such barriers to help prevent illegal border crossings.

Let me ask once again. Do you have any idea how many American citizens have been killed by illegal entrants; how many parents of children who are American citizens have been permanently separated from a child killed by an illegal entrant; how many public schools have been overwhelmed and destroy by the children of illegal entrants; how many local communities are victimized by illegal entrants; or, how many local emergency rooms have been bankrupted and forced to close because of the volume of illegal entrants?

Is it not time for the Democrat Party Leadership to make good on its 1986 promise to secure our border, a promise made for giving amnesty to 2.5 million illegal entrants ___ a promise reneged on for 35 years?

JWK

Illegal immigration is now costing American citizens over $18 billion a year in healthcare costs alone! Far more than the measly $5.7 billion asked for to build a wall! LINK


#800

This just reveals his ignorance in how our federal government operates. There is no obligation for a party or anyone in the federal government to “make good” on any promise.


#801

Ignorance or not, the truth is, what President Trump is asking for is the Democrat Party Leadership to make good on its 35 year old promise to secure the border in a manner which helps to prevent illegal border crossings. Since that promise there are 10 - 20 million new illegal entrants in America, the invasion continues and American citizens are suffering the devastating social and economic consequences from illegal border crossings.

How many more American citizens have to be killed by illegal entrants before the Democrat Party Leadership provides sufficient revenue to build barriers along our border where the terrain requires such barriers to help prevent illegal border crossings? How many more of our public schools have to be overwhelmed and destroyed by the children of illegal entrants before Nancy Botox Pelosi agrees to secure our border? How many more local communities have to be terrorized by illegal entrant gang members, or emergency rooms closes because they are filled with illegal entrants before Pelosi decides to provide for the general welfare of the United States and her citizens?

JWK

There is no surer way to weaken, subdue, demoralize and then conquer a prosperous and freedom loving people than by allowing and encouraging the poverty stricken, poorly educated, low-skilled, criminal and diseased populations of other countries to invade that country, and make the country’s existing citizens tax-slaves to support the economic needs of such invaders.


#802

Is this like the GOP “promise” to repeal the ACA and Trump was going to replace it with a program that was cheaper and covered all Americans?


#803

Yup. Keep in mind the GOP has been infested with stealth Democrats.

JWK

The Democrat Party Leadership has been encouraging this ongoing invasion of our southern border since 1985 when amnesty was granted to 2.5 million illegal entrants in return for a guarantee to build a wall and secure our border. And here we are today, no wall, but 10-15 million new illegal entrants and the invasion continues


#804

The border enforcement enhancements dictated by the 1986 immigration bill were met decades ago.


#805

But the promise to secure the border was not met. There has been a bipartisan agreement among Congressional leaders since the 1980’s to keep the border unsecured. A four foot barbed wire fence is not securing the border.

JWK

There is no surer way to weaken, subdue, demoralize and then conquer a prosperous and freedom loving people than by allowing and encouraging the poverty stricken, poorly educated, low-skilled, criminal and diseased populations of other countries to invade that country, and make the country’s existing citizens tax-slaves to support the economic needs of such invaders.


#806

Show me where that promise was made.


#807

The very intention of the Act, “to prevent illegal entry into the United States”, is found in the Act’s text, and it was sold to the American people to accomplish just that!

(a) TWO ESSENTIAL ELEMENTS. – It is the sense of Congress that two essential elements of the program of immigration control established by this Act are –

(1) an increase in the border patrol and other inspection and enforcement activities of the Immigration and Naturalization Service and of other appropriate Federal agencies in order to prevent and deter the illegal entry of aliens into the United States and the violation of the terms of their entry, and

JWK

There is no surer way to weaken, subdue, demoralize and then conquer a prosperous and freedom loving people than by allowing and encouraging the poverty stricken, poorly educated, low-skilled, criminal and diseased populations of other countries to invade that country, and make the country’s existing citizens tax-slaves to support the economic needs of such invaders.


#808

Which they’ve done.

Obligation fulfilled. Get over it.


#809

:roll_eyes:

It appears you may not be paying attention to the news which proves the 1986 promise “to prevent … illegal entry of aliens into the United States…” has not been kept.

Let us at least stick to truth and facts.

JWK

Illegal immigration is now costing American citizens over $18 billion a year in healthcare costs alone! Far more than the measly $5.7 billion asked for to build a wall! LINK


#810

Every component of the 1986 legislation that was intended to prevent illegal entry has been enacted and has helped lower border crossings by 85%.

It’s a fact.

The compromise was kept. If you have something specific that was broken, point it out because if not you’re just making things up.


#811

Talking about making things up! The irrefutable fact is, the 1986 promise “to prevent … illegal entry of aliens into the United States…” has not been kept. Since that promise, we now have approximately 10-15 million new illegal entrants in the United States and American citizens are suffering the devastating social and economic consequences.

.
How many more American citizens have to be killed by illegal entrants before the Democrat Party Leadership provides sufficient revenue to build barriers along our border where the terrain requires such barriers to help prevent illegal border crossings? How many more of our public schools have to be overwhelmed and destroyed by the children of illegal entrants before Nancy Botox Pelosi agrees to secure our border? How many more local communities have to be terrorized by illegal entrant gang members, or emergency rooms closes because they are filled with illegal entrants before Pelosi decides to provide for the general welfare of the United States and her citizens?

JWK

Illegal immigration is now costing American citizens over $18 billion a year in healthcare costs alone! Far more than the measly $5.7 billion asked for to build a wall! LINK


#812

Lord, you’ll cling to anything, won’t you.

The agreement said they’d increase the border patrol. They increased the border patrol. Quit your whining.


#813

I’m “clinging” to the facts.

The fact is, the 1986 legislation clearly stated its intention is “to prevent illegal entry into the United States”, and it was sold to the American people to accomplish just that!

And here we are today, after amnesty was granted to 2.5 million illegal entrants, we now have an additional 15-20 million new illegal entrants and the invasion continues!

Instead of posting an insulting comment about “whining”, take some time and review the meaning of “prevent”, which the legislation promised!

JWK

There is no surer way to weaken, subdue, demoralize and then conquer a prosperous and freedom loving people than by allowing and encouraging the poverty stricken, poorly educated, low-skilled, criminal and diseased populations of other countries to invade that country, and make the country’s existing citizens tax-slaves to support the economic needs of such invaders.


#814

You are clinging to something that is NEVER going to happen. That being the idea that never again will a single person attempt or be successful at entering our country illegally. That idea is laughable on its face.

Hell, even the countries you tried to use earlier in the thread as proof that walls work don’t have that kind of success rate. As a matter of fact, they too hover right around the 85% success rate on catching people trying to cross illegally. Sure, the overall numbers are lower, but that has more to do with what getting caught crossing illegally into say, Turkey, will net you vs. doing so in the USA. Unless you are okay with being no better than those that would illegally detain you forever because you got caught coming in illegally (since we both know that deporting them doesn’t prevent them from trying again and all), then you will never have what it is you claim was promised.

Just keep in mind, we already know that some people come into our country where the wall already exists, so it’s kinda proof of what I have been telling you from the start, which is the promise that you think was reneged on hasn’t been…its been enforced to the logical best its gonna be.

Get over it.


#815

No where in the act does it use the word promise.


#816

It is not only rude to project your personal beliefs as being mine, it is an indication you are not interested in asking for my opinion and then expressing yours.

If a wall/barrier is 85 percent or more successful in stopping illegal border crossings at a particular border location, erecting such a barrier is well worth it in my opinion and the opinion of border patrol agents!

JWK

Illegal immigration is now costing American citizens over $18 billion a year in healthcare costs alone! Far more than the measly $5.7 billion asked for to build a wall! LINK


#817

Then what are you complaining about? Immigration since 1986 is down far more that 85 percent, without having done anything in regards to more wall.

Face it, you keep making the argument for more people and better technology to do the job you are wanting done, which I have no issue with. We simply disagree on how we should go about doing that job.