If God loves us unconditionally, why does he kill us instead of curing us?


We arent talking about people. We are talking about God. You know, the thing that created the world and all its rules and apparently gets mad / petty if we dont worship him.


Sounds like heaven is no different than earth


The key here is was… I don’t know anywhere in scripture which points to Lucifer or the demons ever getting access to heaven after they were kicked out. In any event, the redeemed will not have our fallen nature. Sin/evil will not reenter…


I believe he is…If there is a limit to his power, we have no way to determine what that limit would be. If he can speak things into existence and wipe out humanity, I’d call that all powerful, but maybe that’s just me.


This is a great example of what studying the Bible as a whole does to a persons’ understanding. Just a couple thoughts here: God is not willing that any should perish… For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son…
No lost person will get to blame God.


The problem with “only begotten son” is that it tries to evince an element of pathos and sacrifice where there is none.

All powerful God could create as many sons as he wanted, correct?

It is only a human man or woman who, if they lost the only son they ever had, would lose the only son they ever could have, and be overwhelmed with all the grief and sadness that that would imply.


Sacrifice of first born or of children are common mythological themes. The bible is filled with rehashed mythologies.


But we already know God originally created everything perfect…and there was a fall anyway.

But THIS TIME, he’ll get it right?


I quoted the relevant verses from Romans where Paul explicitly denies the “passive hardening of Pharoah’s heart” hypothesis.

God actively hardened his heart.

God created Pharoah as a vessel fated for destruction, in order to show God’s mighty works.


The Bible verse says that God hardened pharoah’s heart. This happened numerous times. Once even after Pharoah relented the Lord hardened his heart yet again. Not through any actions, mind you.

Also, try reading Exodus 11:9-10. God tells Moses that Pharoah won’t listen and then hardens Pharoah’s heart in the very next verse!


Does reading a book give the experience of parachuting, climbing Mt. Everest, or even gardening? And, it one has no experience in any of these, but criticizes the book to those who have had the experiences, does that make sense?


I can’t begin to understand or explain the Trinity to Christians, let alone to non believers. There was indeed great sacrifice done at Calvary but like a lot of things, Christians won’t understand until we get to heaven.

A foolish man can ask more questions than a wise man can answer. That’s absolutely true. If you’re waiting on all the answers, you’ll either be disappointed at not learning them, or gloating because we don’t know them either. Meanwhile, you still have an appointment with death… What you do with that truth really is up to you.


We’re still on the original game plan… There isn’t another “this time” coming…


That in itself begets a litany of other problems…like a whole bunch of people predestined for eternal damnation as part of God’s Plan.

But yet of course that’s not God’s fault…


You want to have your free will and eat it, too.

Hold on to your butts, I’m about to Paulsplain this.

Satan was created perfect, but somehow iniquity was found in this perfect, spiritual being. He gets kicked out of Heaven, where he originally sinned, and comes down to start tempting us. We have a fallen nature, being of the flesh (but I guess we would too if we were of the spirit, see case #1), so we give in to this temptation and sin as well.

We have free will and evil exists, because if it didn’t, we’d just be robots and loving God would be fake love. So, because we are wretched beings, blood needs to be shed so that our sins can be forgiven, because the merciful God requires justice.

This merciful God then kills his own son to shed his perfect blood so that anyone can be forgiven if they just freely choose to accept him as Lord. The merciful God then sends those who don’t worship him to eternal damnation (interpret this how you will—could be burning forever, could simply be separation from God, could be proofing out of existence. Who knows, but it’s clearly explained in the Bible if you just understand it).

Now, those who accept Jesus as Lord get to go to Heave (Which means you go to the spiritual place as soon as you die, or you sleep for a time and get resurrected at the second coming and then you live on the New Earth, so we won’t even be spiritual beings? Again, all very clear if you just understand). Now, in Heaven/New Earth, we will forever live happily ever after because in the new “bodies” we have, we are redeemed and will be incapable of not loving God. And we will make this choice of our own free will and it totally won’t make us robots.

Seems like we could have skipped the initial, sadistic steps.


Again. Come to know God. Then read the Bible.


Lucifer wanted to be God and all the people said YES! Let him rule instead of you." God said “ok, here you go, try this first” and cast him to Earth.

How’s his governership of Earth working out for us? Not too well in my opinion, but hey, if that’s what you prefer- TA DA!!! YOU GOT IT… Congratulations.


Again with the Calvinism…:roll_eyes::roll_eyes:


Where in the Bible does it say this?

Edit, Ah, I see you found this logic at Biblebro:
God said, “in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die” (Gen 2:17). Romans 6:16 says, “Don’t you know that you become a slave to whoever you obey? If you obey sin, you’re a slave to sin and you’ll die. If you obey God, then you gain righteousness.” Whoever commits sin is a slave to sin (John 8:34). Satan is the father of lusts, murder, lying (John 8:44) and therefore sin. He is the father of every disobedient person (Eph 2:2), disobedience is lawlessness, and all lawlessness is sin (1Jn 3:4). Since Satan is the father of sin, and since whoever sins is a slave to sin, it’s also accurate to say that whoever sins is a slave of Satan. Hence, Man became a slave and debtor to Satan who he obeyed by agreeing with the snake in the garden, and the very dominion that man had was transferred to Satan.


Just think how high we humans would have risen if God hadn’t created Satan and just left us to our own devices.

We never had a level playing field, so all our sins our God’s fault.

Yet with all that, we still strive for perfection and have been building toward that - with no help from God since He has no power in this world, eh? - for over 2019 years.