GOP on Ukraine War

[Ben_Natuf]

i do know that. most of whats in permanent storage is decommissioned. it will be replaced with newer better systems.

[gooddad409]

@Ben_Natuf

i do know that. most of whats in permanent storage is decommissioned. it will be replaced with newer better systems.

We don’t know that we will never need it. No reason to give it to Ukraine.

[Supreme_War_Pig]

@Ben_Natuf

two reasons.

1. its likely to be about over before the election, or at least decided
2. situations change, best not to get locked in

That could be said about a lot of things though, couldn’t it? In any event, it’s not like she’s suffering from a surfeit of coverage.

[gooddad409]

@Ben_Natuf

@gooddad409

I think your outlook is wrong and dangerously wrong myself. We could wind up in a world war over a country that is not of vital interest to us.

and we could end up in one if we do not counter russian aggression in europe.

@gooddad409

The Russian military is clearly too weak to attempt a ww2 style push through europe.

if however they are allowed to win in ukraine, they buy some time before the next special operation.

Baloney.

[Ben_Natuf]

You don’t have to agree.

The investment in bringing down Russia is a pittance when you consider what it would cost to do it ourselves. And you don’t have to agree with that either, it is my opinion that Russia losing will eventually result in the collapse of the Russian federation. Which in my mind is a good thing.

[Ben_Natuf]

yes, your opinion is baloney

[gooddad409]

@Ben_Natuf

yes, your opinion is baloney

With all due respect you are sounding like Lindsey Graham.

I will be 70 next month and have seen a lot of old guys (usually politicians) send young men and women off to wars over the years we had no business in. Lots of these young folks lost their lives in such wars.

I’ve seen far too much of it and this strikes me as just like the rest.

[SixFoot]

@Ben_Natuf

You don’t have to agree.

The investment in bringing down Russia is a pittance when you consider what it would cost to do it ourselves. And you don’t have to agree with that either, it is my opinion that Russia losing will eventually result in the collapse of the Russian federation. Which in my mind is a good thing.

Everyone is paranoid of the big bad Russian bear that couldn’t even take over a country on its own border.

All coming from the same media that treated the “Taliban” like everything other than a live fire exercise.

[Ben_Natuf]

nope, not lindsey girl. Never did like him. He has never seen a war he didn’t like. Some are worth it, some are not. This one is for several reasons.

1. Weakening Russia directly is in our interest
2. Getting rid of Putin is in our interest’
3. Strengthening Europe is in our interest’
4. The cost is bargain basement considering what it would cost us to do it ourselves
5. We aren’t fighting in it.

As an added benefit, Europe now sees that they must spend to defend themselves which will eventually allow us to change our status in NATO and concentrate more fully on China. Like it or not, until Europe can defend itself we are stuck there. This is our way out.

[Camp]

Very good questions!

Objective. Best Answer IMO is Desantis…Secure Peace. Runner up Trump with Secure Europe.

Aid limit. Best Answer IMO is Trump talk to Putin…Need to talk. Runner up is Desantis. Current limit.

Pence Scott Christie all out with claiming Ukraine is a vital interest.

Trump and Desantis are a toss up. I expected Trump to answer well. Desantis is a pleasant surprise here.

[Camp]

This is why backing off the escalatory rhetoric and focusing on a cease fire is priority one IMO.

[Camp]

Allowed to win or a failure of the UN to unite (China) to halt aggression?

We cannot do this without better international unity.

[gooddad409]

@Camp

This is why backing off the escalatory rhetoric and focusing on a cease fire is priority one IMO.

Exactly!

[Ben_Natuf]

@Camp

cease fire

not even close. a cease fire now is a russian victory. let Ukraine get the systems it was promised, put Russia back on its heels, and then negotiate from a strong position. Russia’s choices should be to leave peacefully, or leave in bags. Leaving peacefully could result in some negotiated wins for them, i.e., Crimean autonomy (they won’t get to keep it), some security arrangement for Ukraine outside of NATO.

[Ben_Natuf]

@Camp

We cannot do this without better international unity.

we can, and we are.

[gooddad409]

@Ben_Natuf

@Camp

cease fire

not even close. a cease fire now is a russian victory. let Ukraine get the systems it was promised, put Russia back on its heels, and then negotiate from a strong position. Russia’s choices should be to leave peacefully, or leave in bags. Leaving peacefully could result in some negotiated wins for them, i.e., Crimean autonomy (they won’t get to keep it), some security arrangement for Ukraine outside of NATO.

Systems? That’s yet another escalation of the war.

No way should we send them systems nor should they have ever been promised.

We have no dog in this fight and need to get out.

[Liberty323]

If one has heard Putin’s views on the decline of Western Civilization it’s understandable why the left has identified him as public enemy #1.

[Ben_Natuf]

@gooddad409

Systems? That’s yet another escalation of the war.

no its not. the idea that it is is nothing but russian propaganda straight off the desk of putin

[Camp]

I am of the opinion it is escalatory and not the policy to follow.

We saved Ukraine from the fate of Crimea. Now is the time to talk.

[Ben_Natuf]

I disagree.

Ukraine saved itself with what they had plus the manpads and javelines Trump gave them.
They pushed Russia back once we gave them western artillery including Himars.
They are currently at a stalemate more or less having not received anything more.
Once they get the tanks, IFV’s and APC’s and sufficient ammo, they will push Russia back more.

Whether they push them all the way out, back to the 2014 lines or just a bit more, that will be the time to negotiate. They have withstood the “great Russian offensive”, now Russia has to withstand theirs.