Conservatives, are DeSantis and Abbot correct?

[Orygun]

@WuWei

@Orygun

include:

Medical freedom!

[Guvnah]

@STODR

I think mandates are a big thing. There is a reason people are flooding to FL.

Telling businesses what to do is a mistake.

Agreed. But the knife must cut both ways.

DeSantis is doing it on the opposite side of the coin, telling businesses they cannot require vaccination proof from their customers if their business model chooses that route.

(As noted earlier in the thread, he is reacting, and I see his ban as an over-reaction to the tsunami of mandates we’re seeing.)

[WuWei]

@Orygun

@WuWei

@Orygun

include:

Medical freedom!

My body, my choice.

[Tguns]

[quote=“tnt, post:1, topic:240419, full:true”]
They seem to be betting big that vaccine mandates are the most important thing on the minds of conservative voters.

Are they right? [/quote]

Most important? Probably not, but anytime big daddy G proclaims “you shall do thus” it’s a fairly big deal to those who believe in individual liberty.

@tnt

Second question - how do you square conservatives using the power of the government to tell businesses of all sizes how they can do business?

I would square it as a reaction to the federal government telling businesses how they can do business?

[Guvnah]

@Kelby

My Trumper neighbor was the same way. Told him I would vaccinated as soon as I could be. He said he’d “already had” Covid and it was no big deal.

A few months later he mentioned a lady from his church died 4 days after getting sick and he got the shot as soon as possible after that. “Did you get yours?” He asked me.

I find it curious how many people try to attach anti-vaxxing to Trump. He’s all for the vaccine.

But your anecdote is important. I also find it curious how many anti-vaxxers can see story after story about unvaccinated people getting nailed by COVID, and the hospitalization rates and death rates of unvaccinated versus vaccinated … and yet still dig in their heels the way they do.

Your neighbor saw the light, perhaps when it hit too close to home for him. We need to continue shining that light – presented as factual information and not as a hammer.

Mandates aren’t going to flip the anti-vaxxers. Shaming and yelling won’t either. They’re going to have to see the light for themselves, somehow. And until they do, they choose the increased risks. It’s hard for me not to say, “told you so” when anti-vax people I know get nailed by the virus. A good friend’s brother (early 50s) died this way, and she’s still mad at him and struggling with those feelings clashing with the love she has for her lost sibling (and the pain she feels for his widow and his two kids.)

[Orygun]

@Guvnah

Mandates aren’t going to flip the anti-vaxxers

I really don’t understand this…

There has long been support for mandates for vaccines for kids. But somehow this is different?

Vast Majority of Americans Say Benefits of Childhood Vaccines Outweigh Risks

[Tguns]

Perhaps the difference here is the demonization of those who wish to choose for themselves, you know the whole ‘if you don’t get the vax, your a bad person’ narrative.

People tend to be repulsed by being demonized and or coerced into action.

[Roxiebelle]

That’s because the leftist marxists in Government are shoving vaccines down our throats and that is what’s putting the vaccine mandates most important right now because of the threat & reality of losing jobs, livelihoods, and being “profiled” with segregation and discrimination.

Biden inherited from the previous Administration the vaccine and effective therapeutics to combat covid19 and the same Biden bozo’s who demonized the vaccine prior to the fraudulent election are now the tyrants forcing everyone to get the vaccine and they are still demonizing effective treatment and that’s the reason more people have died from covid related illnesses in the first 10 months in office than the onset of covid19 & the previous Administration. In other words Biden policies have killed more covid victims then they blame the previous President for.

You don’t think this enormous covid catastrophe is not noticed by the public, hell even those dumb enough to have actually voted for Biden can feel the Biden policy pain!!

The vax mandate crap is effecting everything from individual health to our supply lines and recession is right around the corner as the red haired wonder Psaki said herself recently to the WH press corps we are going to see fundamental changes in our economy, aka it’s going in the toilet!

Biden and his Administration is a fundamental disaster for the country so YES Governors are right in taking a stand on the vaccine which is only one of the many assaults’ on the nation by this Administration.

[STODR]

@Guvnah

@STODR

I think mandates are a big thing. There is a reason people are flooding to FL.

Telling businesses what to do is a mistake.

Agreed. But the knife must cut both ways.

DeSantis is doing it on the opposite side of the coin, telling businesses they cannot require vaccination proof from their customers if their business model chooses that route.

(As noted earlier in the thread, he is reacting, and I see his ban as an over-reaction to the tsunami of mandates we’re seeing.)

What do you mean knife must cut both ways. I specifically said he was wrong telling businesses they could not do it. But I was okay with him telling governments they could not mandate it.

[Guvnah]

@Orygun

@Guvnah

Mandates aren’t going to flip the anti-vaxxers

I really don’t understand this…

There has long been support for mandates for vaccines for kids. But somehow this is different?

I don’t understand the particular position either.

But I do recognize human nature, and recalcitrance in the face of demands, and the impact that politicization of the issue has on this.

And people’s willingness to cut off their nose to spite their face.

[Guvnah]

@Tguns

People tend to be repulsed by being demonized and or coerced into action.

Yup. It’s why I said:

@Guvnah

Mandates aren’t going to flip the anti-vaxxers. Shaming and yelling won’t either.

No matter how right you are, people won’t want to listen if you deliver the message with a baseball bat.

[Orygun]

@Tguns

Perhaps the difference here is the demonization of those who wish to choose for themselves, you know the whole ‘if you don’t get the vax, your a bad person’ narrative.

Well it’s more like if you don’t get vaxxed and get infected you have a much higher chance of spreading this illness to others- including unvaccinated kids. So yes someone’s personal decision affects others. That’s the case with all vaccines.

And really research shows that only a handful of people are angry about mandated immunizations for kids- but somehow care tremendously about this one vaccine mandate.

[Dem]

@Guvnah

I find it curious how many people try to attach anti-vaxxing to Trump. He’s all for the vaccine.

Less of tying anti-vax to Trump, and more to his supporters. The hardcore anti-vaxxers tend to be the most ardent Trump supporters.

@Guvnah

presented as factual information and not as a hammer.

This won’t work. The unfortunate thing is that the vaccine has become politicized, and presenting facts are not going to convince people.

The only thing that will convince these people, is when it affects them personally.

[Orygun]

@Guvnah

I don’t understand the particular position either.

But I do recognize human nature, and recalcitrance in the face of demands, and the impact that politicization of the issue has on this.

And people’s willingness to cut off their nose to spite their face.

Well that’s an honest post. Appreciate that.

[Guvnah]

@STODR

What do you mean knife must cut both ways. I specifically said he was wrong telling businesses they could not do it. But I was okay with him telling governments they could not mandate it.

I missed that you said the highlighted part.

Thus, I unwittingly reinforced your position, and I agree with it.

(Likewise – and especially likewise – your last sentence. Government is his purview. Perfectly right for him to do that.)

[Guvnah]

@Dem

Less of tying anti-vax to Trump, and more to his supporters. The hardcore anti-vaxxers tend to be the most ardent Trump supporters.

And blacks.

[Guvnah]

@Dem

This won’t work. The unfortunate thing is that the vaccine has become politicized, and presenting facts are not going to convince people.

But your anecdote was a counterexample of that.

[Dem]

@Guvnah

@Dem

Less of tying anti-vax to Trump, and more to his supporters. The hardcore anti-vaxxers tend to be the most ardent Trump supporters.

And blacks.

Sadly understandable, but they aren’t the vocal ones.

@Guvnah

But your anecdote was a counterexample of that.

I guess you could call personal experience facts. What I mean though, is that telling people statistics, or showing them stories won’t do anything to convince them. The have to experience it for themselves.

[Kelby]

@Roxiebelle

That’s because the leftist marxists in Government are shoving vaccines down our throats and that is what’s putting the vaccine mandates most important right now because of the threat & reality of losing jobs, livelihoods, and being “profiled” with segregation and discrimination.

Biden inherited from the previous Administration the vaccine and effective therapeutics to combat covid19 and the same Biden bozo’s who demonized the vaccine prior to the fraudulent election are now the tyrants forcing everyone to get the vaccine and they are still demonizing effective treatment and that’s the reason more people have died from covid related illnesses in the first 10 months in office than the onset of covid19 & the previous Administration. In other words Biden policies have killed more covid victims then they blame the previous President for.

You don’t think this enormous covid catastrophe is not noticed by the public, hell even those dumb enough to have actually voted for Biden can feel the Biden policy pain!!

The vax mandate crap is effecting everything from individual health to our supply lines and recession is right around the corner as the red haired wonder Psaki said herself recently to the WH press corps we are going to see fundamental changes in our economy, aka it’s going in the toilet!

Biden and his Administration is a fundamental disaster for the country so YES Governors are right in taking a stand on the vaccine which is only one of the many assaults’ on the nation by this Administration.

It must be difficult reconciling credit given to Trump for streamlining production of the vaccines and then castigate Biden for trying to get people to take it…

[Orygun]

@Kelby

It must be difficult reconciling credit given to Trump for streamlining production of the vaccines and then castigate Biden for trying to get people to take it…

Still not understanding it. Sheesh Trump even got booed when he promoted the vaccine at a rally.