Addressing the elephant in the womb


#1072

It’s gonna be a long wait.


#1075

They’re apron tugging.


#1076

No it doesn’t.


#1077

Its not a feeling, she absolutely does.


#1078

So you are denying that there are movements to legalize “personhood” at fertilization?


#1079

What does that mean exactly?


#1081

Yes it does. If the law agreed with you that life begins with the first division then abortions wouldn’t be legal yet they are


#1083

That body also so happens to be occupying another person’s body, taking their bodily resources, and imposing a heightened health risk. The mother can expel that body at any point she wishes.


#1084

Tugg Tugg.


#1086

I disagree. Biologically, life indisputably starts as soon as two gametes fuse to form a zygote. This isn’t a philosophical matter. A new, living organism now exists. However, the law allows for taking another life in many scenarios. Abortion is one.


#1090

If you don’t even know what it means, why did you call it an insult?


#1091

I view it as an insult. I’m asking why you dont. What does “tugging the apron” mean to you?


#1094

Is abortion murder?


#1096

Based solely on your “feelings”.


#1097

Is it?

Let’s roll with this for a second.

Assume a woman is told by her doctor that if she carries the baby to term there is a 50% chance that she will die but only a 10% of the baby dying. If she has an abortion, there is a 0.5% chance she will die (I made that number up for the point of the calculation).

There are two choices; abort or not abort.

Using expected values…

Abort results in the death of 1.005 human beings.

Carry to term results in the death of 0.6 human beings.

I assume our goal is to minimize the loss of human life, correct?

This assumes we assign the same value to the fetus as we do the mother.

The fact that you would make exceptions for the life of the mother tells us that you do not assign the same values to the mother and fetus. You value the fetus less. Why?


#1098

And once again justification or the lack thereof for the killing is the legal difference between a justifiable homicide and murder.

What part of that don’t you get?


#1101

You describe a self-defense scenario.


#1102

In such a case there is a clear threat to the life of the mother so there’s no problem with the justification.

To put this in very understandable terms, just because someone is robbing you at knife or gun point does not mean they absolutely intend to kill you but there’s a very real possibility they will, in such a case shooting them in self defense is still perfectly justifiable.


#1105

Ok. So then you dont believe abortion is murder. Thats how I read it. Why did you respond with this? All im doing is asking for clarification


#1106

He is following it.