Addressing the elephant in the womb

[mobulis]

@WildRose

Based solely on your “feelings”.

Nope sorry.

[Borgia_dude]

@Meriweather

@Bodecea

You are the one who went on about when sex is right (in your opinion)…“sacred” I believe is a word you bandied about.

I said there were two ways of viewing sex–as sacred or recreational. That in itself is a choice. Or, are you saying there is only one way to view sex? If so, then to me, it sounds like you are the one who wants control of sex, not me.

I would add there is a third view of sex-procreational. Imagine an atheist wantng to have a baby. It isn’t sacred for them.

[mobulis]

@WildRose

And once again justification or the lack thereof for the killing is the legal difference between a justifiable homicide and murder.

What part of that don’t you get?

What part of murder is the UNLAWFUL taking of a human life don’t you get?

[Meriweather]

@Borgia_dude

I would add there is a third view of sex-procreational. Imagine an atheist wantng to have a baby. It isn’t sacred for them.

I agree they would not use the word ‘sacred’ in that case. Procreational is a great addition. Thank you.

[Borgia_dude]

@Guvnah

@Borgia_dude

Let’s roll with this for a second.

You describe a self-defense scenario.

So you agree that the fetus is threatening the mother by its presence?

[Bodecea]

@Guvnah

@ImRightYoureWrong

I’ll wait

Let me know when you start holding you breath.

You know (or should know by now) that I don’t give your posts and your questions and your demands any quarter.

Is abortion murder or not? (of course there’s a very good reason why this question doesn’t get answered)

[Borgia_dude]

@WildRose

In such a case there is a clear threat to the life of the mother so there’s no problem with the justification.

To put this in very understandable terms, just because someone is robbing you at knife or gun point does not mean they absolutely intend to kill you but there’s a very real possibility they will, in such a case shooting them in self defense is still perfectly justifiable.

So the fetus, by its presence, threatens the mother.

Let’s take this a step further. I used 50% chance of dying. What if the doctor told the mother she had a 25% chance of dying? 10%? 5%? 1%? 0.5%?

In all scenarios above, the fetus threatens the life of the mother so it would be self defense. Would you say govt gets to determine what percent mothers should be comfortable with on abortion or should the mother decide?

[WildRose]

Now you’re reduced to spurious arguments where there is no clear threat to the life of the mother.

Why am I not surprised?

[Borgia_dude]

Are you talking to me? I laid out different threat levels. You and guvnah seems fine with accepting abortion when there was a 50% chance of the mother dying if she kept to term.

I’m just wondering where you want to put that bright line. Is it 50%? What about 40%? 30%? 10%?

If you want to make exceptions for the life of the mother due to an argument of self-defense, at what percent are you going to put that line?

If you don’t define that line, the mothers will decide on their own individually.

[Meriweather]

@Borgia_dude

Let’s take this a step further. I used 50% chance of dying. What if the doctor told the mother she had a 25% chance of dying? 10%? 5%? 1%? 0.5%?

In all scenarios above, the fetus threatens the life of the mother so it would be self defense. Would you say govt gets to determine what percent mothers should be comfortable with on abortion or should the mother decide?

Let’s take the government out of it. At what point does a woman learn that pregnancy is going to present a threat to her life? Is this her first visit ever to a doctor? No physicals, ever? At the point a woman learns that a pregnancy represents a threat to her life, she has decisions to make then.

And yes, “Each time I become pregnant, I will have an abortion,” is a decision. Is it the best decision or does she have other options pre-pregnancy?

[Samson_Corwell]

@WildRose

Wars defending your homeland? No, they are not objectionable.

Wars of aggression for the purpose of expansionism and/or colonialism, they are not justifiable.

Murder is the unjustified taking of a human life. Killing in self defense or the defense of others is completely justifiable.

There is no justification for intentional killing of another human being except in defense of self and others.

All you are doing is babbling.

And you babble truisms.

[sikofit]

@Meriweather

Is it the best decision or does she have other options pre-pregnancy?

She can also choose to use birth control. Another choice some on the right would like to strip her of

[Meriweather]

@sikofit

She can also choose to use birth control. Another choice some on the right would like to strip her of

How would they be able to strip her of that choice?

[sikofit]

@Meriweather

How would they be able to strip her of that choice?

They want to make birth control unavailable as well.

[Meriweather]

@sikofit

hey want to make birth control unavailable as well.

How? For example, are they against government paying for birth control for everyone? So am I. However, there is no way anyone can stop the sale of birth control, any more than they can stop the sale of other drugs. So this is a non-issue.

[sikofit]

@Meriweather

@sikofit

They want to make birth control unavailable as well.

How? For example, are they against government paying for birth control for everyone? So am I. However, there is no way anyone can stop the sale of birth control, any more than they can stop the sale of other drugs. So this is a non-issue.

That doesn’t mean they don’t want to limit access

“Another argument the Trump administration cites in limiting access to contraceptives is that a birth control coverage mandate could “affect risky sexual behavior in a negative way.” In other words, give more women birth control and they’ll be more promiscuous.”

The Trump administration’s case against birth control is a stunning...

[mobulis]

@Meriweather

@Borgia_dude

Let’s take this a step further. I used 50% chance of dying. What if the doctor told the mother she had a 25% chance of dying? 10%? 5%? 1%? 0.5%?

In all scenarios above, the fetus threatens the life of the mother so it would be self defense. Would you say govt gets to determine what percent mothers should be comfortable with on abortion or should the mother decide?

Let’s take the government out of it. At what point does a woman learn that pregnancy is going to present a threat to her life? Is this her first visit ever to a doctor? No physicals, ever? At the point a woman learns that a pregnancy represents a threat to her life, she has decisions to make then.

And yes, “Each time I become pregnant, I will have an abortion,” is a decision. Is it the best decision or does she have other options pre-pregnancy?

Having other options pre-pregnancy doesn’t take away her ability to choose abortion if pregnant.

[Bodecea]

@WildRose

Now you’re reduced to spurious arguments where there is no clear threat to the life of the mother.

Why am I not surprised?

No clear threat? Are you aware of just how dangerous childbirth can be? Ever give birth?

[Guvnah]

@Borgia_dude

So you agree that the fetus is threatening the mother by its presence?

Not as a general rule. (Which is how I take your statement I just cited.)

You gave a specific set of circumstances. That’s what I responded to. Do NOT try to expand that to a blanket statement. Fair enough?

In your scenario, THAT fetus is threatening the life of the mother. 50% chance. Serious threat.

[JayJay]

@Meriweather

@Borgia_dude

So you want to wield the power of the govt to restrict insurance and ads. It seems you like big govt solutions when it aligns with your goals.

Back up. Start with Is taking an innocent life right or wrong. Next, let’s see what government is telling us. Get rid of government opinion. Get rid of any business that wants to promote ending life, just as would be done to any business that wants to promote pedophilia. My position is not that difficult to understand.

You can’t back up to that because people have different definitions as to what “innocent life” is when it comes to abortion.