Why aren't you Catholic?

[Meriweather]

@gooddad409

Well you could come up with any number of ‘sacraments’ in such a way after all a lot of other things were taught. I knew the term was nowhere to be found in the scriptures.

I have a problem accepting terms, beliefs, practices, and especially traditions not mentioned in the scriptures themselves.

That’s why we had a restoration movement. To return to the beliefs and practices of the 1st century as recorded in the scriptures themselves.

The Catholic Church did not have to “return” to beliefs and practices of the first century–they were all carried forward, none eliminated. “Sacrament” is the term that was used to describe these practices and teachings of Christ. The word comes from the Latin, meaning devote or devotion to (these practices and disciplines of Christ).

[SimplyTrying]

@Meriweather

@SimplyTrying

I grew up Catholic.

When my dad died in 91 I had a resurgence of faith. Was in Knights of Columbus, youth ministry, music ministry, and hosted bible meetings in my home, and was in the archdiocesan choir of Baltimore that sang the mass when pope John Paul visited Camden yards.

All gone now. I pray but I never go to church. I just don’t believe the institution is important to me anymore.

I don’t agree with its rules either. Masturbation is normal! Babies that die before being baptized are not doomed to purgatory (that’s what a lady who had lost her baby was told in an RCIA class I attended).

I don’t feel like I abandoned God. I just feel that we have a different relationship now.

Purgatory are not a place of doom, and in any case, the Church does not teach that is where unbaptized babies go. The term “Limbo” may have been used, but that is directed at the Church, not at Babies. Scripture doesn’t tell us what happens to unbaptized babies, so we are in limbo as to the fate of these babies (unless we want to make up something outside of scripture). The best the Church can say (as they told my sister) that we entrust these little ones to the mercy and love of God.

Church is community worship. There is also individual worship. One should not preclude or overshadow the other. You non-attendance may very well be what is best for you, the individual. But…is your non-attendance what is best for the community? We each must ask ourselves, “How much do I care about the community?”

I am sure you did not abandon God, and even more sure He did not abandon you. It appears that you merely left the community, either because they had nothing to offer you, or because you had nothing to offer them. It happens. And, sometimes it happens because one wants to focus closely on their own relationship with God without distractions.

They may have said limbo. It’s been a long time. But they should not have disparaged the lady who lost her baby. I would have simply said, sure, your baby is in heaven. When it comes to another persons feelings I think it’s fine to make up something. It could very well be what we are all already doing anyway.

[LeroyBrown]

Because I do not need to be a Catholic to follow Christ.

[Gaius]

@LeroyBrown

Because I do not need to be a Catholic to follow Christ.

I have a tendency to do what I want and then justify it as the right thing.

Blindly following any denomination might be a bad idea, but pretending I know more than any of them (Yay me!) didn’t work out so well either.

[Meriweather]

@SimplyTrying

They may have said limbo. It’s been a long time. But they should not have disparaged the lady who lost her baby. I would have simply said, sure, your baby is in heaven. When it comes to another persons feelings I think it’s fine to make up something. It could very well be what we are all already doing anyway.

I wasn’t there, so I don’t know, but I cannot imagine anyone disparaging a lady who lost a child. It certainly did not happen that way with my sister. I can’t disagree that it would be fine to make something up…but I wonder if that is what is best. Most of us do not care to be patronized. Here is an example from my own childhood where a priest took me seriously without promising me something to make me feel better. I had an atheist grandfather.

1. I loved my grandfather, could I imagine God loving him more? (I could)
2. The Church taught the way of salvation and redemption, but when it failed to reach or convince someone, could I remember that with God all things are possible? (I could)
3. Could I remember that heaven was in search of people who were like pearls of great price? (I could)

Father explained that while the Church could only guarantee salvation through the way of Christ and what he taught, the lack of that guarantee for my grandfather did not in any way doom him to hell. Quite simply the church just couldn’t guarantee his salvation and redemption.

I feel more more assured by this explanation than had I been given a pat on the head and a glib lie that Grandpa would be in heaven. I am also assured I can trust the Church in laying out the truth.

[Gaius]

I’ve heard/readsome pretty horrid things said by people who ‘thought’ they were relating what their organized denomination taught. It wouldn’t surprise me if one or more misinformed people slipped through the cracks and in a formal religion class taught his own beliefs as 'what we Catholics say is… or ‘what we Methodists, not the United Methodists, we other ones, say is …’

[gooddad409]

@Meriweather

@gooddad409

Well you could come up with any number of ‘sacraments’ in such a way after all a lot of other things were taught. I knew the term was nowhere to be found in the scriptures.

I have a problem accepting terms, beliefs, practices, and especially traditions not mentioned in the scriptures themselves.

That’s why we had a restoration movement. To return to the beliefs and practices of the 1st century as recorded in the scriptures themselves.

The Catholic Church did not have to “return” to beliefs and practices of the first century–they were all carried forward, none eliminated. “Sacrament” is the term that was used to describe these practices and teachings of Christ. The word comes from the Latin, meaning devote or devotion to (these practices and disciplines of Christ).

With all due respect that’s nonsense. There are a great many beliefs and traditions in the Catholic Church that were never mentioned in the scriptures.

[Blackwolf]

@Gaius

I have ‘always said’ that religions didn’t cause history’s religious wars. Big governments did.

Not really sure I buy that distinction given that the Church was most decidedly a world political power back when the worst of those religious wars were raging.

[Gaius]

@gooddad409

With all due respect that’s nonsense. There are a great many beliefs and traditions in the Catholic Church that were never mentioned in the scriptures.

My church lights candles and plays an organ. The priest wears robes and we use a cross as our symbol.

Not only are three of those not in the Bible, organs didn’t exist in Christs days and His first followers used a FISH as their symbol. To them a cross as symbol would have been macabre, like using an electric chair or a guillotine as a symbol.

I don’t necessarily endorse everyone of the changes the church added in later centuries, but it produced some groovy music.

[koushi_shinigami]

Hello. Not liking this new format so far

[Gaius]

@Blackwolf

Not really sure I buy that distinction given that the Church was most decidedly a world political power back when the worst of those religious wars were raging.

Eventually the people of Europe wised up and said “Your just SAYING” this is a war for God. Really it’s a war for you."

Of course people were smarter in those days.
I highly recommend people wise up as they did.

[Meriweather]

@koushi_shinigami

Hello. Not liking this new format so far

Koushi! Welcome! I’ve been waiting for you! Think of the new format as the first day of high school. The whole place seems confusing the first couple of days, but it quickly becomes sane.

I keep exploring and pushing any button that is not familiar to me at first, and keep getting all sorts of automated messages trying to steer me right. (Kind of like a hall monitor!)

[koushi_shinigami]

We will have to wait and see.

[koushi_shinigami]

If it is true that God doesn’t need an intermediary, why did he send Jesus?

[koushi_shinigami]

Are you talking about something other than the seven things Merri mentioned? Because near as I can tell, all seven of those things (sacraments) are mentioned in scripture.

Now if you are talking about something else, that would be moving the goalposts.

[LeroyBrown]

@Safiel

For people that don’t agree with its doctrines, Catholicism would obviously be an anathema.

For some, for others like myself, it is another way of drawing oneself closer to God in a more formal and ritualized manner.

[LeroyBrown]

@koushi_shinigami

If it is true that God doesn’t need an intermediary, why did he send Jesus?

I thought it was that God doesn’t need a starship…

[koushi_shinigami]

That too…

[Call_me_Ishmael]

@koushi_shinigami

If it is true that God doesn’t need an intermediary, why did he send Jesus?

not to talk. But to be sacrificed.

[Safiel]

@Meriweather

@Safiel

I grew up in Mainline Protestantism, specifically the United Methodist Church. I am now non-theist, but even at that time, I could not have ever imagined converting to Catholicism.

The whole “confession” thing was a deal breaker right from the start.

(Again, I am speaking from my former perspective as a Methodist.)

God can hear prayer and repentance himself, he does not need an intermediary to listen for him.

The wine and bread is NOT the ACTUAL body and blood of Christ, it is just a symbolic gesture. I rejected that Catholic doctrine firmly.

There were others, but those two will do for now.

I would have been very reluctant to even marry into a Catholic family. My brother did marry a Catholic, but she was not a strict practitioner by any means and he never converted himself nor did he attend the Catholic Church with her.

Catholicism is off the table for me, even if for some reason I was to become religious again.

Catholicism is fine for people who appreciate what it offers and agree with its doctrines.

For people that don’t agree with its doctrines, Catholicism would obviously be an anathema.

Perhaps replace “Catholic Doctrine” with “Early Christian Doctrine” and reflect on that for a time. When people came to Jesus, he said, “Your sins are forgiven”, he did not say, Go pray to the Father. One of Jesus’ main purposes was to pronounce the forgiveness of sins, and this is how Confession became a tenet and a practice within the early Christian Church and the Catholic faith. If Methodists think that in the Catholic faith it’s an either “pray directly” or “Confession”, then they are sadly mistaken. It is both. Catholics remember the disciplines which come with graces that Christ set forth. Turning one’s back on graces should not be taken lightly.

Early Christians believed in the True Presence as can be seen in pieces of Roman history where Christians were called cannibals because of their insistence on Christ’s presence in the bread and wine. Recall Jesus losing many followers when he, himself, presented this teaching.

While following these teachings of Christ, the Apostles, and the Early Christians bring grace and blessings to many, faith in Christ without these two teachings is still nothing to be sneezed at. I wish you well in your own faith journey.

I would just say that I (speaking now and from my former perspective) disagree with you on matters of doctrine and will leave it at that. The OP question is why aren’t you a Catholic? I would have to answer that I could not be a Catholic, as it would have required me to adopt a number of doctrines I strongly disagree with. I am simply too far away in point of view (and was at a younger age) to ever find any common ground with the Catholic Church.

And I would give the same answer to Islam, to charismatic denominations, Orthodox Christian denominations, Jehovah’s Witnesses, Mormons, etc. Simply no common ground.