Who Can Pass The Pearly Gates?


#61

That was not not the truth. It was just an insult. Which indicates an inability to rebut the statement. Thank you for showing that.


#62

The Lord said to pray for your enemies. If I am Christ-like, I will do as asked and I must say, I’m still a work in progress.


#63

And (seven) is a universal indicator of completeness.


#64

I interpret this as the science of geometry that was revealed to humanity long ago.


#65

How hard can it be to pray for her?

“Dear Lord. I pray to you for Hillary Clinton. Only you know the deepest, darkest recesses of every human heart. I turn her over to your infinitely merciful, wise and loving judgement to be given what she has worked so hard for her entire life and so richly deserves.”

That wasn’t difficult.


#66

Did a search on this and found a website translating “The Lotus Sutra.”

Are the Sutras like the Christian Biible?


#67

In Greek there is one word for heaven and sky. It is the same in Hebrew - one word for both sky and heaven. God lives in heaven, he also lives in sky. It is not a place. It is what we cannot see but we know by faith, that is where God is. It is the spiritual realm.

In Scripture, God also dwells with his people … God is here, “all in all.” If we are in God’s presence, our spirits are where God is also.

The Apostle Paul: “Any one who does not have the Spirit of Christ does not belong to him. But if Christ is in you, although your bodies are dead because of sin your spirits are alive because of righteousness. If the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, he who raised Jesus from the dead will give life to your mortal bodies also through his Spirit which dwells in you.” Romans 8:10-11

Heaven is a state of being, not a place.


#68

what will you do with the answers you receive?


#69

She was cast out of heaven a long time ago.


#70

Not much, this is a discussion forum and I enjoy hearing others opinions and thoughts on heaven and who is are able to enter! Even though I do good by my Christian faith, I’m not an absolutist of the Christians bible and I believe all good people regardless of religion will get to heaven.


#71

Matt.7
[1] Judge not, that ye be not judged.
[2] For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
[3] And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother’s eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?
[4] Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?
[5] Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother’s eye.


#72

anything in there about being humorless?


#73

Yes, this is the Lotus Sutra, the Saddharma Pundarika Sutra (skt.) or MyohoRenge Kyo (Jap) In another thread In the religious forum I included some parables from this sutra, including the parable of the Excellent Physician and the Prodigal Son chapter and explanations on the connection between the Sermon on the Mount and earlier Sutras.

Portions of the Christian New Testament are definitely derived from Buddhist sutras. Jesus was teaching Buddhism in a different time and place, to a different audience,

The Greek Pythagorus school also became familiar with Brahmanic and Buddhist Sutras. These teachings traveled along the Silk road reaching the “holy land.”

The Jewish teaching are connected to the Brahmanic teachings. The paralells provide clarity.

In the Puranas (histories) of India extreme droughts and four floods and resulting diasporas are documented, including more then one ancient oahs Ark story which as most know are also found in the Zuisudra story in the Sumerian texts.

Buddhism reformed a corrupted Brahmanism as Jesus reformed a corrupted Judaism.

In the same way, in the first century, Mahayana Buddhism reformed a corrupted Buddhist establishment, returning to the original intent.

Jesus is very much related to the flow of Buddhism.


#74

no. Chapter and verse?


#75

King James Bible
And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
Hebrews 9:27. Don’t see a “purgatory” there.


#76

What does the Bible say about Purgatory?
Bible Purgatory
Question: “What does the Bible say about Purgatory?”

Answer: According to the Catholic Encyclopedia, Purgatory is “a place or condition of temporal punishment for those who, departing this life in God’s grace, are not entirely free from venial faults, or have not fully paid the satisfaction due to their transgressions.” To summarize, in Catholic theology Purgatory is a place that a Christian’s soul goes to after death to be cleansed of the sins that had not been fully satisfied during life. Is this doctrine of Purgatory in agreement with the Bible? Absolutely not!

Jesus died to pay the penalty for all of our sins (Romans 5:8). Isaiah 53:5 declares, “But He was pierced for our transgressions, He was crushed for our iniquities; the punishment that brought us peace was upon Him, and by His wounds we are healed.” Jesus suffered for our sins so that we could be delivered from suffering. To say that we must also suffer for our sins is to say that Jesus’ suffering was insufficient. To say that we must atone for our sins by cleansing in Purgatory is to deny the sufficiency of the atoning sacrifice of Jesus (1 John 2:2). The idea that we have to suffer for our sins after death is contrary to everything the Bible says about salvation.

The primary Scriptural passage Catholics point to for evidence of Purgatory is 1 Corinthians 3:15, which says, “If it is burned up, he will suffer loss; he himself will be saved, but only as one escaping through the flames.” The passage (1 Corinthians 3:12-15) is using an illustration of things going through fire as a description of believers’ works being judged. If our works are of good quality “gold, silver, costly stones,” they will pass through the fire unharmed, and we will be rewarded for them. If our works are of poor quality “wood, hay, and straw,” they will be consumed by the fire, and there will be no reward. The passage does not say that believers pass through the fire, but rather that a believer’s works pass through the fire. 1 Corinthians 3:15 refers to the believer “escaping through the flames,” not “being cleansed by the flames.”

Purgatory, like many other Catholic dogmas, is based on a misunderstanding of the nature of Christ’s sacrifice. Catholics view the Mass / Eucharist as a re-presentation of Christ’s sacrifice because they fail to understand that Jesus’ once-for-all sacrifice was absolutely and perfectly sufficient (Hebrews 7:27). Catholics view meritorious works as contributing to salvation due to a failure to recognize that Jesus’ sacrificial payment has no need of additional “contribution” (Ephesians 2:8-9). Similarly, Purgatory is understood by Catholics as a place of cleansing in preparation for heaven because they do not recognize that because of Jesus’ sacrifice, we are already cleansed, declared righteous, forgiven, redeemed, reconciled, and sanctified.

The very idea of Purgatory and the doctrines that are often attached to it (prayer for the dead, indulgences, meritorious works on behalf of the dead, etc.) fail to recognize that Jesus’ death was sufficient to pay the penalty for ALL of our sins. Jesus, who was God incarnate (John 1:1, 14), paid an infinite price for our sin. Jesus died for our sins (1 Corinthians 15:3). Jesus is the atoning sacrifice for our sins (1 John 2:2). To limit Jesus’ sacrifice to atoning for original sin or sins committed before salvation is an attack on the Person and Work of Jesus Christ. If we must, in order to be saved, pay for, atone for, or suffer because of our sins, then Jesus’ death was not a perfect, complete, and sufficient sacrifice.

For believers, after death is to be “away from the body and at home with the Lord” (2 Corinthians 5:6-8; Philippians 1:23). Notice that this does not say “away from the body, in Purgatory with the cleansing fire.” No, because of the perfection, completion, and sufficiency of Jesus’ sacrifice, we are immediately in the Lord’s presence after death, fully cleansed, free from sin, glorified, perfected, and ultimately sanctified.


#77

#78

Its probably the worst translation available.

You won’t find the word purgatory, but there are a lot of other words you won’t find as well. So, what?

The root word of purgatory is purge. Is there anyplace in the bible that describes a purging or purifying process? The answer is yes.

From Catholic Answers:

I Corinthians 3:11-15 may well be the most straightforward text in all of Sacred Scripture when it comes to Purgatory:

For no other foundation can any one lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. Now if any one builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble—each man’s work will become manifest; for the Day will disclose it, because it will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test what sort of work each one has done. If the work which any man has built on the foundation survives, he will receive a reward. If any man’s work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire.

No Christian sect I know of even attempts to deny this text speaks of the judgment of God where the works of the faithful will be tested after death. It says our works will go through “fire,” figuratively speaking. In Scripture, “fire” is used metaphorically in two ways: as a purifying agent (Mal. 3:2-3; Matt. 3:11; Mark 9:49); and as that which consumes (Matt. 3:12; 2 Thess. 1:7-8). So it is a fitting symbol here for God’s judgment. Some of the “works” represented are being burned up and some are being purified. These works survive or burn according to their essential “quality” (Gr. hopoiov - of what sort).

What is being referred to cannot be heaven because there are imperfections that need to be “burned up” (see again, Rev. 21:27, Hab. 1:13). It cannot be hell because souls are being saved. So what is it? The Protestant calls it “the Judgment” and we Catholics agree. We Catholics simply specify the part of the judgment of the saved where imperfections are purged as “Purgatory.”

Objection!

The Protestant respondent will immediately spotlight the fact that there is no mention, at least explicitly, of “the cleansing of sin” anywhere in the text. There is only the testing of works. The focus is on the rewards believers will receive for their service, not on how their character is cleansed from sin or imperfection. And the believers here watch their works go through the fire, but they escape it!

First, what are sins, but bad or wicked works (see Matthew 7:21-23, John 8:40, Galatians 5:19-21)? If these “works” do not represent sins and imperfections, why would they need to be eliminated? Second, it is impossible for a “work” to be cleansed apart from the human being who performed it. We are, in a certain sense, what we do when it comes to our moral choices. There is no such thing as a “work” floating around somewhere detached from a human being that could be cleansed apart from that human being. The idea of works being separate from persons does not make sense.

Most importantly, however, this idea of “works” being “burned up” apart from the soul that performed the work contradicts the text itself. The text does say the works will be tested by fire, but “if the work survives… he will receive a reward. If any man’s work is burned up, he shall suffer loss.” And, “he will be saved, but only as through fire” (Gr. dia puros). The truth is: both the works of the individual and the individual will go through the cleansing “fire” described by St. Paul in order that “he” might finally be saved and enter into the joy of the Lord. Sounds an awful lot like Purgatory.

https://www.catholic.com/magazine/online-edition/is-purgatory-in-the-bible


#79

Fine. Then tell me, According to Catholic teachings, since they are the ones teaching about purgatory, what other destination can a soul arrive at other than heaven after passing through purgatory.

Three responses from you on this one post. Seems this has really put a burr under your saddle. Dont worry though, you won’t be convinced by anything I say and nothing you say can change Catholic teachings. So we will just impotently bat this ball back and forth to no real useful purpose and end up thinking each other to be ignorant asses in the end. Next move is yours.


#80

Jesus gave his blood as the sign of the New Covenant with God which is our repentance for His forgiveness of our sins. Jesus proclaimed repentance for the forgiveness of sins; he did not proclaim deliverance from suffering.

Jesus remarks and parables reference purgatory because Jewish belief at the time was a time of purification (for those Jews who had greatly sinned) that is said to last no more than a year after one’s death.