Was the virgin birth allegory?

[Guvnah]

@AlexMcAlpine

I’m getting the impression that you thought I was implying that you told me wrong.

Not at all. I’m just showing that it works.

And I don’t know what else to say about that.

[DaMan]

@Meriweather

CS Lewis’ _The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe_is a good example of an allegory. The lion Aslan the lion represents Christ or God, the White Witch represents evil, and Edmund represents Judas. In the story of the nativity, who does Mary represent? Who does the baby represent? Who does the angel represent? In my view, Jesus, Mary, and Joseph do not represent anyone other than themselves. How do you see it? Who does Mary represent? Joseph? Jesus?

Its the activity of virgin birth we are talking about…I can write an allegory using Abe lincoln just because he existed doesnt mean the story is true or happened or isnt told to express something else. Virgin birth could symbolize creation of a God from another world. Abe Lincoln flew to space only to be brought down by a rogue asteroid. Is it true just because abe existed? Not everything in an allegory needs to be metaphorical- but some of the story can be. In this case…the virgin birth.

[theduke]

Except virgin births are possible.

[DaMan]

@theduke

Except virgin births are possible.

Then they wouldnt be miracles from God…unless you’re suggesting miracle virgin births are possible…of course without providing evidence

[theduke]

@DaMan

@theduke

Except virgin births are possible.

Then they wouldnt be miracles from God…unless you’re suggesting miracle virgin births are possible…of course without providing evidence

I’ll try and cut and past the posts from another thread that does. Not too good at the cut stuff.

[theduke]

@theduke

@DaMan

@theduke

Except virgin births are possible.

Then they wouldnt be miracles from God…unless you’re suggesting miracle virgin births are possible…of course without providing evidence

I’ll try and cut and past the posts from another thread that does. Not too good at the cut stuff.

From the ‘’‘Don’t Call Us Mormons’’ thread:

@calirepub

@Tilly_jow

Actually, ‘‘virgin births’’ are possible. The couple of a friend of mine had one. It has to do with being a ‘‘■■■■■ teaser’’. The girl was shocked when she found out she was prego and the Dr. had to explain it to her. TRUE STORY.

I’m intrigued.

I had never heard of the term “■■■■■ teaser”. I googled it. Apparently it’s the same as a ■■■■ tease. That makes sense. However, a ■■■■ tease means a woman who leads men on to believe she will have sex with them even though she has no intention to. As far as I know, you can’t get pregnant by simply implying you’re down for sex.

So… What happened?

@Tilly_jow

They were teenagers, they’d be naked and she’d let him ejaculate on her vagina thinking there was no worry. Well, it happened enough that some of those little guys sneaked through and…virgin pregnancy. That’s the story they told me, just hanging out in my friends apt.

That’s the story

[DaMan]

That’s not a miracle from God and that’s now how the bible describes the virgin birth… of course, it is possible to get someone pregnant without intercourse. Are you suggesting another human somehow got Mary pregnant without intercourse because that is not a miracle, that’s just conception without intercourse, which is done all the time with sperm donors…thus is a very bad argument for Mary virgin birth…very bizarre argument. Males it even more believable this was just allegory

Virgin birth of Jesus

[theduke]

@DaMan

That’s not a miracle from God and that’s now how the bible describes the virgin birth… of course, it is possible to get someone pregnant without intercourse. Are you suggesting another human somehow got Mary pregnant without intercourse because that is not a miracle, that’s just conception without intercourse, which is done all the time with sperm donors…thus is a very bad argument for Mary virgin birth…very bizarre argument. Males it even more believable this was just allegory

Virgin birth of Jesus - Wikipedia

I’m just saying virgin birth isn’t anything to get excited about, or as miraculous as some might think. A lot of that stuff in bible about the early part of jesus’ life has to be a bit suspect.

[DaMan]

@theduke

I’m just saying virgin birth isn’t anything to get excited about, or as miraculous as some might think. A lot of that stuff in bible about the early part of jesus’ life has to be a bit suspect.

Ok i understand but we are not talking about non miraculous virgin births but rather conception via holy spirit …not by some indirect means of transfer

[Sewell]

Once I learned about the birds and the bees, I just assumed that Mary had sex with a dude, because that’s what happened.

[theduke]

@DaMan

@theduke

I’m just saying virgin birth isn’t anything to get excited about, or as miraculous as some might think. A lot of that stuff in bible about the early part of jesus’ life has to be a bit suspect.

Ok i understand but we are not talking about non miraculous virgin births but rather conception via holy spirit …not by some indirect means of transfer

That’s the stuff that’s been born out of myth and been justified ever since.

[AlexMcAlpine]

@Guvnah

• I didn’t remember the post you quoted that you were responding to. A little bit of context would have helped.
• But it works better if you provide a little context.

I quoted the post I responded to. It was right there in the post you replied to. I quoted your own words. You made the post today.

It won’t take much effort to go back and look. You’re asking me to do that for you. I’m telling you that you’ll have to do that for yourself.

So…I just highlighted my message, that you quoted, and your response to it.

Now when I respond to it, you’ll easily be able to see what I said first, what you said in response to it, and what I’m saying in response to you.

Makes it a lot easier to keep track of conversations.

[AlexMcAlpine]

@Guvnah

Of course it is.

No, it’s not.

[Guilds]

@theduke

A lot of that stuff in bible about the early part of jesus’ life has to be a bit suspect.

Well, there is also the dying and coming back to life. That seems a bit suspect as well.

[theduke]

@Guilds

@theduke

A lot of that stuff in bible about the early part of jesus’ life has to be a bit suspect.

Well, there is also the dying and coming back to life. That seems a bit suspect as well.

Yeah, all good stories need a hook.

[SimplyTrying]

@Guilds

@SimplyTrying

Wasn’t there a reliable historian around that time called Josephus? I seem to recall he verified a lot of early history. Maybe even 32 A.D.?

It was in the year 93. He did not witness it. He heard about it. And wrote about it.

Heresay. Not evidence.

Ok thanks.

[Meriweather]

@DaMan

Its the activity of virgin birth we are talking about…I can write an allegory using Abe lincoln just because he existed doesnt mean the story is true or happened or isnt told to express something else. Virgin birth could symbolize creation of a God from another world. Abe Lincoln flew to space only to be brought down by a rogue asteroid. Is it true just because abe existed? Not everything in an allegory needs to be metaphorical- but some of the story can be. In this case…the virgin birth.

Say, what??!! Forgive me, I teach English, including how to write a myth, fable, allegory, etc. Abe in space with a rogue asteroid doesn’t fit the definition of allegory any more than the Nativity story. If either was submitted as an allegory, both would receive a low score. The Nativity, submitted as a myth would receive a high score. So far, the story about Abe Lincoln doesn’t qualify as allegory, fable, or myth, but might be considered for science fiction.

Any ways… I think your point may be that you believe the Nativity story is fiction of some type, and that everyone else should view it as fiction as well. Why do you believe everyone should view the Nativity as fiction? How do you benefit from considering it to be fiction? How will others benefit?

[Meriweather]

@Guilds

Heresay. Not evidence.

Then the majority of history recorded in those days is hearsay. Is that how you see it, or do you just claim “hearsay” only when it comes to Jesus? If so, why?

[Guilds]

Wrong.

The majority of history, where humans learned how to write and record, was written at the time it was happening.

For some that was not…it has not been much of an influence on human civilization.

I think we can agree, Christianity has had a powerful impact on human civilization in the last 2000 or so years.

Mostly based on myths and stories.

You too are an atheist. You do not believe in in the vast majority of religions. You have settled on one you like, or was raised in.

I simply go one step further, and do not believe in any of them.
(although I do practice many of the various teachings on how to conduct oneself, but that is also is based in reality, and common sense)

[DaMan]

@Meriweather

Say, what??!! Forgive me, I teach English, including how to write a myth, fable, allegory, etc. Abe in space with a rogue asteroid doesn’t fit the definition of allegory any more than the Nativity story. If either was submitted as an allegory, both would receive a low score. The Nativity, submitted as a myth would receive a high score. So far, the story about Abe Lincoln doesn’t qualify as allegory, fable, or myth, but might be considered for science fiction.

Any ways… I think your point may be that you believe the Nativity story is fiction of some type, and that everyone else should view it as fiction as well. Why do you believe everyone should view the Nativity as fiction? How do you benefit from considering it to be fiction? How will others benefit?

Sorry seems like you are dancing around this… you may think it’s a bad allegory, the point was that you can use people who existed in real life, in an allegory, if their own existence isn’t the focus of what is allegorical. You said virgin birth couldnt be allegory because Mary was a real person. That’s just wrong and I hope as an English teacher you can understand that because it’s fairly obvious…this thread is started by OP asking if the story is allegory that’s why we are discussing it