Say, what??!! Forgive me, I teach English, including how to write a myth, fable, allegory, etc. Abe in space with a rogue asteroid doesnât fit the definition of allegory any more than the Nativity story. If either was submitted as an allegory, both would receive a low score. The Nativity, submitted as a myth would receive a high score. So far, the story about Abe Lincoln doesnât qualify as allegory, fable, or myth, but might be considered for science fiction.
Any ways⌠I think your point may be that you believe the Nativity story is fiction of some type, and that everyone else should view it as fiction as well. Why do you believe everyone should view the Nativity as fiction? How do you benefit from considering it to be fiction? How will others benefit?
Then the majority of history recorded in those days is hearsay. Is that how you see it, or do you just claim âhearsayâ only when it comes to Jesus? If so, why?
The majority of history, where humans learned how to write and record, was written at the time it was happening.
For some that was notâŚit has not been much of an influence on human civilization.
I think we can agree, Christianity has had a powerful impact on human civilization in the last 2000 or so years.
Mostly based on myths and stories.
You too are an atheist. You do not believe in in the vast majority of religions. You have settled on one you like, or was raised in.
I simply go one step further, and do not believe in any of them.
(although I do practice many of the various teachings on how to conduct oneself, but that is also is based in reality, and common sense)
Sorry seems like you are dancing around this⌠you may think itâs a bad allegory, the point was that you can use people who existed in real life, in an allegory, if their own existence isnât the focus of what is allegorical. You said virgin birth couldnt be allegory because Mary was a real person. Thatâs just wrong and I hope as an English teacher you can understand that because itâs fairly obviousâŚthis thread is started by OP asking if the story is allegory thatâs why we are discussing it
The point is to have a discussion about whether or not it is fiction and if allegorical what does it mean. If you dont like that kind of conversation then you can not take part in discussionâŚits academicâŚyou dont need to worship to explore religions you dont worship
Not wrong. Return to primary sources in all aspects of history at that time. In fact, nothing was written about Socrates until Plato in the next generation. Further, someone in Platoâs generation said what Plato wrote and attributed to Socrates were actually his own ideas. One example, with my point being that while none of the historians may have known Jesus personally, all knew and recorded the ruckus his followers were causing.
Wrong. An atheist is someone who does not believe in a higher power, no matter who names him or what he is called. What I believe about God may be different from what early Romans and Greeks believed about GodâŚbut we all believe in God. You, on the other hand, have no belief in that higher power.
Doesnât matter who used the term âallegoryâ first, by definition it is not a good example of an allegory because it barely fits the criteria for an allegory. In any case, I understood the OP was asking if the story was fictional, something I responded to in one of my first posts and did not see any reason to go over that part again.
Donât get testy. I am enjoying the discussion and part of a meaningful discussion is to be clear on how everyone is defining the terms being used. Allegory themes discuss morals. What do you believe are the morals presented in the Nativity story?
we arent talking about Mary as a person. we are talking about the action of virgin birth being allegorical. Itâs irrelevant whether or not Mary was real seems like a strange diversion from the subject ⌠every part of an allegory doesnt need to be fictionâŚexample a virgin birth but using historical people
Allegory doesnt only express morals⌠they can also express some sort of spiritual reality or happening, say, for example like I already mentioned, the birth of some spirit or God from another realmâŚmiracle creationâŚvirgin birth. Seems you have very narrow definition of allegory which is incorrect
Allegory doesnt only express morals⌠they can also express some sort of spiritual reality or happening, say, for example like I already mentioned, the birth of some spirit or God from another realmâŚmiracle creationâŚvirgin birth. Seems you have very narrow definition of allegory which is incorrect
There is not a (current) major religion based on Socrates.
So I do put more weight on billions of people believing stories that are not based in reality, especially since some of those people, hold very important positions that can affect billions of others.
With that in mindâŚwhether Socrates was real or not, does not affect anything.
I am 99.9% atheist. I cannot claim, with absolute certainty there is not a higher power.
I can claim, the Christian God is based on myths and stories, with unsubstantial proof of its existence. So technically, I am closer to being an agnostic, vs an atheist.
I do not believe in spirits, or even spirituality for the most part.
I do believe everything in the universe is connected. The fact that I am breathing air, that Jefferson once breathed in, or have drank water that once rained down over earth a million years agoâŚis amazing.
That doesnât matter to historians. What they evaluate is also the second generation because nothing springs up instantly. We see that within the next generation the effect of Christ and his teachings was reaching high levels of government. Historians donât claim someone didnât exist if no current generation historian didnât mention that person. They especially cannot/do not expect something that arose at a grassroots level (such as philosophy and religion) to be coveredânot when historians are more apt to cover government and people in power. Christ and Socrates were of neither group.
Forgive me, I teach English, including how to write a myth, fable, allegory, etc. Abe in space with a rogue asteroid doesnât fit the definition of allegory any more than the Nativity story. If either was submitted as an allegory, both would receive a low score. The Nativity, submitted as a myth would receive a high score. So far, the story about Abe Lincoln doesnât qualify as allegory, fable, or myth, but might be considered for science fiction. 
