the two are not connected. there is no war against russia. there is a russian war against ukraine
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doesnât matter where they came from, we have 3700 in storage.
what does matter, is⌠is this train the trainer?
Article I read said this is for that all volunteer brigade that also just got the M55S upgraded T-55s.
theyâll have enough for a battalion. or maybe a small cav squadron (- heloâs)
What I read said that they were forming the unit based on US combined arms doctrine, but it looks like they are going to use a modified Russian manning structure. A 3 battalion brigade, using mostly US equipment, but with smaller battalions than a US battalion structure⌠Theyâre even using M-16s instead of AKs. Right now the unit is in the North, Once fully equipped, Russian Tanks will be at an 800-1500 yard engagement range disadvantage against this unit. BMPs and BTRs will be at an even worse disadvantage in engagement ranges. This unit will have the engagement capabilities of a mid 1990s US brigade. The vast majority of the Russian armor is no better than the same equipment Saddamâs Republican Guard units had in the early 90s. We slaughtered the Iraqi units attacking at 1:3.
i have no doubt itâll be an improvement, but its bn size, not bde. An ABCT has 152 bradleys and 87 tanks.
A Russian BDE is slightly smaller. 30 Tanks and 120 BMPâs. Are you refering to a BTG, which is a battalion (10 tanks 40 BMPâs), not a brigade, and which Russia doesnât use anymore (not enough infantry, not enough firepower)
ETA, my major beef with the M55s being deployed with Bradleys is the M55s does not have thermals. Maybe theyâll get those 14 Challengers in time to make it even better.
Now, we just need to do the same thing 17 more times for Ukraine to be able to meet its force requirements for ABCTâs.
I thought they were upgraded with Israeli thermal systems
not that iâm aware. the m55s upgrade is pretty good, the stabilization adds the ability to shoot on the move. modern fire control system, but as far as i know, no thermals. and a 105mm main gun
This Ukrainian Assault Brigade is supposed to be built around 28 M55s and 50 M2s. They could also be slated to get the Marder IFVs being sent.
meh, its the equivalent of a small cav squadron without the air cav. which is a big battallion.
maybe their planning one nato bn and two russian equipt ones.
i take that back, its actually pretty close to a regular armor bn. cav usually has 4 troops instead of 3
The 105 is the same gun that originally equipped the M1 and the M60. The optics on it are supposed to allow it to engage 1400 yards farther than the Russian optics allow the Russian 125 mm to effectively engage. I looked up the actual system. No thermals, but passive day/night and laser range finding automatically fed into the fire control computer that keeps the main gun stable on target. It looks like an 80% expected first round hit at range.
yep. i looked it up a while back, i forgot about the range finder. also has laser detection i think with automated smoke for passive defense
its better than what they got
These things are going to be a real nightmare for the Russian Armor. It looks like this unit will engage a Russian unit for 1000 yards outside of the Russian tank engagement envelope, The unit will also have javelins which can engage at the same range advantage to the Russian tanks. The TOW systems have an 800 yard engagement advantage over the 125 mm. I have to think the M55 crews will get at least 2, if not 3 shots off before the Russian tanks get into engagement range and Bradleys will get off at least 1 volley of TOWs before the Russian tanks could get into range to fire back. Any supporting BMPs or BTRs will never get into firing range to shoot back. That 1000 yards will be 20 seconds of hell on earth.
i agree with that. iâm skeptical of this being the bde though. i think theyâll build a bde around it. i just looked it up and even ukrainian tank brigades have 3 bnâs with around 30 tanks each. likely the other two will ne with russian equipment or maybe marders, challengers and leopards and⌠something. personally, if they get the challengers and leopards, we should just give them enough bradleys to fill it out.
what a logistical nightmare for ammo and maintenanc though⌠lol
Remember they are also getting AMX10s from France with the same 105 mm gun system. This could be set up as 3 combined arms battalions of 20 IFVs and 9 tanks and a recon troop of 10 IFVs and the AMX10s. That would be more in line with US combined arms doctrine. 1 of the combined arms battalions would have to be either BTR or BMP equipped.
a us bn would have 50 ifvâs and 29 tanks. what youâre describing is a company with a few extra ifvâs. a ukranian bn has about the same. no matter how you slice it 50 bradleys and 28 tanks is not a brigade, its a bn.
I wouldnât mix challengers or leopards with the M2/M55S unit. Iâd think they would build a separate assault brigade around those tanks. The Challenger 2 and the Leopard 2 have 120 mm main guns.
i wouldnât either, but their only getting one company of challengers and so far 2, maybe three companies of leopards.
does challenger fire the same ammo? its barrel is rifled
They are used to Russian force structure Thatâs 3 platoons of 3 tanks or IFVs per company around 30 vehicles per Battalion. The assault brigades are probably going to be a mix of NATO equipment Russian force structure. And this unit will definitely punch well above its weight.
Typical Brits, non-standard ammo.
