college grads make more money than non-college grads.
On average. That does not change the fact that many college grads (40%, if the article in Eagle-Keeper’s link is accurate) do not get good jobs within their chosen field of study.
I’m well aware of that, and I never claimed otherwise. When I see stats like this:
"More than 40 percent of college graduates take positions out of school that don’t require a degree, the study found. And more than 1 in 5 college grads still aren’t working a degree-demanding job a decade after leaving school."
That indicates that there is real problem with how we are approaching Higher education in America. Lett me give you example from my own experience. Over the past few years there has been a push to get more students to take Physics. Now textbook Physics is class for science and engineering majors, but since colleges ostensibly want Physics to be a part of a high school students coursework (at least that is what the guidance departments say) many average level students started taking Physics. What happens then is the class gets watered down and the kids just end up hating it anyway since they have no interest in the topic. Furthermore these are students who by and large would never be able to handle a college level physics course. A complete waste of time and of the taxpayers money. This type of thinking and practice is not uncommon in higher education.
Sure is a restaurant going to higher a waiter of waitress with a college degree than one without? Sure, but what a waste of time and money. And like the survey points out, 40% of college graduates are in positions that don’t require a college degree! As far as I’m concerned the notion that 8 years (high school + college) of higher education is pushed on our young adults is one of the biggest scams going.
Your stats aren’t useful. Notice how they don’t discuss timelines.
Physics is not required for college admissions unless you want to pursue certain majors.
It’s often difficult to get a job in you chosen field, depending on what that field is. There are no absolutes. I had little hope of getting a good job in the field of prehistoric archaeology without a PhD, and I received a memo when I entered graduate school (1974) that employment was not a guarantee. The competition was intense, often 200 PhDs applying for the same position. After having received two postdoctoral scholarships (including a Fulbright post doc to Europe), that plum job never materialized and I entered the archaeological plan B, cultural resource management, which I found depressing. I applied for a job teaching earth science (my graduate minor) at a prestigious private school. Best move of my life. I’ve been there over 30 years and now teach chemistry, mostly self-taught. And I eventually published (co-authored) a textbook on experimental science in education.
I knew a college biology major a number of years ago that taught our 7th grade life science course. She was a star. But she decided to attend graduate school, earned a PhD and now has her own research laboratory in the the California state university system You just never know what life throws at you.
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There is a link to the actual report, which is 48 pages. No report on this would ever be considered absolute since it’s based on a statistical sample. So I can’t state that the 40% number is absolute fact but I assume you cannot falsify it either.
I never stated anywhere that Physics was required to for all majors. Essentially what is happening (at least in many NJ schools) is that colleges are telling HS Guidance departments that they (the colleges) want to see physics on the transcripts of all students. In other words it is not a requirement per say but they are trying to push students in that direction.
Here is another article with similar stats:
A college degree is by no means a guarantee. Some people make out real well and get a good job right out of college, but not everyone as the student loan debt crisis has demonstrated.
On a side note, I was curious about where you are teaching. Is it at a high school?
A college degree tells an employer that you can commit to something and deliver but as we all know a college degree is not the answer to everything.
I have talked about this before but ROI is important. My employer is paying for my degree 100% so all I ma investing is my time. I have already seen my income increase significantly because I have applied a number of things my associates and Bachelors has taught me in my job.
The act of learning is never wasted. Paying for that learning experience is another matter altogether.
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The more fundamental problem with Higher Education (for me I included both High School + College) is that the much of the coursework, for one much of the coursework has little to no practical value, and secondly most of what is learned is going to be forgotten very shortly after completing the class.
Imagine this experiment. Let’s say we reduced the time in higher education from the current eight years to 4 years. Do you believe that people are going to be less productive in their jobs as a result of not having to sit in classrooms for that 4 extra years? Here is an article that expands on this further:
High school
It sounds like you are taking courses that are specifically associated with your job? That’s by no means the majority of the coursework that one’s required to complete in college. For myself the overwhelming majority of my coursework, even my major courses, had no applicability in my employment.
Regarding why employers prefer college graduates here is another take from the article I just posted:
"My theory is that employers prefer college grads because they see a college degree chiefly as mark of one’s ability to obey and conform. Whatever else you learn in college, you learn to sit still for long periods while appearing to be awake. And whatever else you do in a white collar job, most of the time you’ll be sitting and feigning attention. Sitting still for hours on end — whether in library carrels or office cubicles — does not come naturally to humans. It must be learned — although no college has yet been honest enough to offer a degree in seat-warming.
Or maybe what attracts employers to college grads is the scent of desperation. Unless your parents are rich and doting, you will walk away from commencement with a debt averaging $20,000 and no health insurance. Employers can safely bet that you will not be a trouble-maker, a whistle-blower or any other form of non-“team-player.” You will do anything. You will grovel."
You indicated that was at a prestigious private school, correct? I would assume that the majority of the students you had were likely higher level academically and generally motivated? What state are you in?
Yes, generally motivated and high achievers, but not all. I’ve also taught (briefly) in a poor public school, where by the way there were some great teachers. In my opinion, kids are kids–parents have a lot to do with their outlook. Louisiana.
My employer will cover up to $5000 per year of any degree as long as it can be connected to what we do. We have departments that span pretty much every topic you can imagine. I could have done a political science degree if i wanted or journalism or maths or nursing.
We can agree to disagree on why you think employers want college graduates. You have a very antiquated view of the workplace.
Most innovative forward thinking companies discourage yes men. They don’t want people to grovel or maintain the status quo. If anyone finds themselves working for such a company get out,
What you are saying here is essentially my point, i.e. coursework connected to one’s job. Essentially 1/2 of one’s college degree is not that. It’s essentially High School all over again, regarding the general education requirements. For most jobs much of that coursework is essentially useless. I’ll give an example. My friends daughter got a degree in fashion and was required to take General Chemistry. There is essentially nothing in a General Chemistry class related to fashion. The fact is that the chemistry of synthetic fibers is virtually useless for people working in fashion. The knowledge that may have a modicum of application to fashion could be completed in a one day lesson.
We get it. You think there’s no value in education unless everything you learn immediately applies to the job you are doing right now. What college did you go to where 1/2 of your degree was “high school all over agin?” You should get 1/2 of your money back.
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Well, yes and no. Yes, in the field of biology, a B.S. in biology is not a good prospect, but on the other hand, a person with a degree in biology has the knowledge of a fairly wide swath of science and will be able to adapt to other fields fairly well. My current job is in a field that didn’t exist when I got my B.S. in Biology. The skills I learned in biology helped me overall.
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Over the course of a lifetime people’s careers can change. Even if the topic is not directly related to what you will be doing, it still cannot hurt to expand your knowledge, increase your learning, revision, test taking skills.
Ultimately if someone doesn’t want to go to college that is their choice, lots of alternatives out there.
I would be stupid to throw away the chance of earning a BA at no cost to myself.
