The Rending of the Government Fabric?

Not to discuss the morality of abortion, there are several threads already.

Thomas speaks on the other aspect

“When you lose that trust, especially in the institution that I’m in, it changes the institution fundamentally. You begin to look over your shoulder. It’s like kind of an infidelity that you can explain it, but you can’t undo it,” Thomas added.

The use of the word “infidelity” is interesting to me. I’d like to ask him what he means by that, I think I know.

It’s not just this leak. #defundthepolice is another example. The autonomous zones. The riots. The shortages and empty shelves. Inflation.

It looks to me like the central government is crumbling. I think we can all agree it is focused more on itself than anything else.

Perhaps we have reached to point of diminishing returns with “justice” over freedom?

Was the judiciary and specifically the SCOTUS the last remaining piece?

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There’s a historian/archeologist that has studied the collapse of ancient civilizations who has pretty much the same hypothesis as you…that “governments” arise when a civilization naturally evolves to become complex enough to “need” one and eventually “government” starts losing the ability to do what it was created to do (because of diminishing returns). And then spends a lot of time using it’s power to keep justifying it’s existence.

Not saying that quite right…let me see if I can find the links to the work and rejoin this thread.

Again…another thread with the potential to be interesting…if people don’t wade in and throw partisan bombs.


A little more

If this is accurate, he didn’t mean what I hoped he did.

Can’t help to wonder that’s part of their intention…this court is only that that’s in libs way now.

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Fischer’s Rules for Following Rules

  1. The rule has to have fidelity. It has to make sense in order to be followed. It has to have value at the pointy end of the stick.

It’s not “libs”.

First, an excellent thread topic! Unfortunately I would have to say that I’m in the camp regarding America’s glass is half empty. I can’t recall a time in my life when there’s been more political divide, and ultimately it’s about that power, and as Lord Acton said: “Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely.”


I think it is…it’s all part of tearing down our institution that stands in their way.

Partisan monocularity.

The central government is not “our institution”, kind of the point.

And the so-called “conservatives” are just as guilty.

If the SCOTUS is packed because of this leak, which I think is a very distinct possibility, will the fabric be further torn?

I don’t believe that the intent when the fabric was woven, was for the SCOTUS to be the ultimate arbiter. And now, thanks to the decisions we have made over the years, it may be the last vestiage and about to collapse.

The 17th doomed the Senate.

The abdication to the executive by congress corrupted the former and made a joke out of the latter.

And now this… what’s left?

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You mention diminishing returns, I don’t believe it. There is so much more that government can do. That’s how they think.

Thomas comment of infidelity it about unfaithfulness that has been displayed not just by the people involved with SCOTUS but system/government/institutions itself.

No trust, cheating on system.

As for libs/repugs…yes both are guilty of cheating/infidelity.

a) Still haven’t found those links. I have now started a Google Sheets where I can store all stuff I find on the Web I find interesting. Why I didn’t do this years ago I’ll never know. So I’ll discuss tactically until I can find the info for the broader topic.

b) I still don’t see that the Dems have anything to offer Sinema and Manchin that would give them the ability to end the filibuster so they can change the rules.

c) If central power is crumbling, then the huge amount of focus placed on playing with the levers of central power is perhaps misguided. Here the right wing has possibly gotten the jump on the left, perhaps intuitively sensing that if central power is crumbling, local power is going to be more important. This abortion debate calls that to my mind…Dem messaging is almost entirely focused on what the federal government can do, and engaged in totally futile efforts to pass a federal abortion law and in a surely futile effort to change the Roe ruling when it comes. They should be thinking about local levers to adapt/fight in a post-Roe world, because that’s where the battle will be.

And the GOP is already there before they are, as they are with the battle in the schools and were in the battle on COVID mitigations.

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They may think there is so much more the central government can do but this topic is in the more fundamental question as to WHETHER the central government can ACTUALLY do more.

Seriously…this is not a Lib/Con battle discussion. The subject is much more foundational than that.

You have plenty of threads where you can show how much you hate Libs. Can we have ONE that’s free of that stuff?

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I guess you missed this part.

I don’t see central powers crumbling…I see em solidifying their power.

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Right but the story is whether they CAN.

The question is why they are doing this, and one potential answer is because they intuitively know they can’t live up to the reason they were created, and so now are going to fight to keep the status quo…I.e. continue their existence just to continue their existence.

Good post. I think the consent of the governed is what is crumbling. Not the power, although it is derivitive.

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I agree it is not crumbling.

I’ll never understand how people who lived or who are well versed in the history of this country in the 20th century when actual revolutions were planned, when self-described revolutionaries actually attacked the federal government, when the majority of the country polled thought that it was the end of the country say that today is the end.

I mean may be it’s the economic downturn mixed with covid mixed with nihilism… may be. I don’t know.

Agreed, in both the conservative and liberal side.

And one of the root causes as to why consent of the government is possibly because what the federal government was created for…it can no longer do. Because the fed government is now engaged in existing just to continue to exist and not for any value add to the people.

I hoped so, but after reading the CNN quotes, it looks like he isn’t.

The state is losing the consent of the people. Because it isn’t satisfying anyone anymore. It’s growing weak. And weakness precedes desperation, since an organism’s most important instinct (and a state is most certainly an organism) is self preservation.

That’s my view.