The Europeans forgave themselves. So should we

[WuWei]

@vaard

I dont seem to remember europe instituting jim crow type laws and segregating blacks for a 100 years after they ended slavery…

Were there mississippi burning type events that happened in those countries?

Of course they did.

[WuWei]

@Jezcoe

The US should absolutely forgive itself for slavery.

We do however still carry the burden of systematic racism.

No, we don’t. Systemic racism is non-existent in this country.

[WuWei]

@Tilly_jow

@altair1013

@Tilly_jow

They don’t give their police a free pass to gun down the offspring of slavery.

Every single slave in the America’s prior to the revolution and many after the revolution were provided by one of these countries.

I’m putting you down as a no. We should not move on, we should continue to wallow.

Obviously we need to continue to wallow in it as long as republicans/conservatives continue to their movement to restrict their vote.

That’s not racism. They’ll do it to you too.

[party-free]

Very good point.

Not only that, but we have a large population of descendants of those who fought to continue to the practice of slavery living along side the population of descendants of former slaves.

That makes true forgiveness and the prospect of legitimately moving on quite dubious.

Bob Lee was right when he suggested that memorializing the war, especially the losing side, would make the wounds harder to close. I think he was right, especially when it came to memorializing the war in areas where descendants of former slaves lived.

I think a large, black population in Memphis, for example, has a legitimate grievance regarding the statues (from public grounds) of persons who fought to keep their ancestors enslaved. I didn’t say destruction, just removal to a more appropriate venue like a museum.

(edit: changed a word that I don’t think changes the meaning of what I said, just clarifies-hopefully it doesn’t change your opinion of my post, @WuWei)

[WuWei]

Good post.

[Axxowiz]

The guilt is held by the masochists on the left. It’s a western liberal phenomena, there are still slaves in many parts of Africa today no one cares, they would rather beat themselves up for something that happened over 150 years ago.

[Cynic]

Yes it is.

[altair1013]

@TheRedComet

Judo is making a good point.

How many slave descendants are in Britain?

Not many.

By comparison nearly 12% of the US population are the descendants of slaves.

Now I personally feel that the debt has been paid. But the numbers of slave descendants in the US are staggering.

Of course we were going to have a much more difficult time confronting our past than a country like the UK.

Very True. When the Europeans gave up slavery, they left their slaves in the Americas to fend for themselves. Example: Haiti. The language of Haiti is French. Because Haiti was a French slave colony. Now the slave decedents live in the most horrific conditions in the entire western hemisphere. Poverty, corruption and misery. And the French have washed their hands of it. No wallowing.

[Forcefield]

@altair1013

Britain, Portugal, France, Spain, The Netherlands and many others have all done it. What have they done? They have gotten past their slave holding/ trading legacy. They do not wallow in it as we insist on doing. They do not use it as a political wedge to divide people as we do. In fact, they have totally forgiven themselves and moved on. They have embraced the 21st century and left their sins of the 19th century far behind. Shouldn’t we stop the self loathing nonsense and do the same?

They also aren’t afraid of gun control or government health care. Tradesies?

[altair1013]

@Forcefield

They also aren’t afraid of gun control or government health care. Tradesies?

There is no “also.” I would like to stay focused on the topic.

When the Europeans gave up slavery, they left their slaves in the Americas to fend for themselves. Example: Haiti. The language of Haiti is French. Because Haiti was a French slave colony. Now the slave decedents live in the most horrific conditions in the entire western hemisphere. Poverty corruption and misery. The French have washed their hands of it and walked away. Should they be doing a little more American style wallowing?

[WuWei]

@Cynic

Yes it is.

No it isn’t. It’s tripe.

[altair1013]

@Tilly_jow

This is a troll in language only. Fact is, for a 100 years after the civil war with jim crow there was no feeling of moving beyond slavery. It wasn’t until the civil rights movements of the 60’s that we ‘‘might’’ have began but there was still a lot of resistance. And 50 years after the civil rights movement the resistance continues as we can see as the people that opposed the civil rights movements of the 60’s are undoing bits of it now(The Voting Rights Act). This OP is another little bit of the ‘‘new resistance’’, IMO.

When the Europeans gave up slavery, they left their slaves in the Americas to fend for themselves. Example: Haiti. The language of Haiti is French. Because Haiti was a French slave colony. Now the slave decedents live in the most horrific conditions in the entire western hemisphere. Poverty corruption and misery. The French have washed their hands of it and walked away. Should they be doing a little more American style wallowing?

BTW. For some reason, tens of thousands of Haitians want to come here. Many have died trying. Can you explain why?

[Forcefield]

@altair1013

When the Europeans gave up slavery, they left their slaves in the Americas to fend for themselves. Example: Haiti. The language of Haiti is French. Because Haiti was a French slave colony. Now the slave decedents live in the most horrific conditions in the entire western hemisphere. Poverty corruption and misery. The French have washed their hands of it and walked away. Should they be doing a little more American style wallowing?

Your premise betrays so much about how this kind of thinking works. Acknowledging history isn’t “wallowing” and “apologizing”. A large chunk of our populace is here because of slavery. We ignore history and it’s impact on our culture at our own peril. The civil rights act was only 50 years ago man. There are turtles walking the earth who were alive when we made the descendants of slaves use different bathrooms and water fountains.

[WuWei]

That is true.

[altair1013]

@Forcefield

When the Europeans gave up slavery, they left their slaves in the Americas to fend for themselves. Example: Haiti. The language of Haiti is French. Because Haiti was a French slave colony. Now the slave decedents live in the most horrific conditions in the entire western hemisphere. Poverty corruption and misery. The French have washed their hands of it and walked away. Should they be doing a little more American style wallowing?

Your premise betrays so much about how this kind of thinking works. Acknowledging history isn’t “wallowing” and “apologizing”. A large chunk of our populace is here because of slavery. We ignore history and it’s impact on our culture at our own peril. The civil rights act was only 50 years ago man. There are turtles walking the earth who were alive when we made the descendants of slaves use different bathrooms and water fountains.

What about this premise?

For some reason, tens of thousands of Haitians want to come here. Many have died trying. Can you explain why?

[WuWei]

Haiti is a ■■■■ hole. I’d want to come here too.

[Cynic]

Nope, both your posts are claptrap.

[Cynic]

Because their Caribbean and SA/CA neighbors are doing so well!

[Cynic]

Eh, Texas is ■■■■ hole too.

[TheRedComet]

Haiti sucks.

The reason why it sucks is more complicated than most people realize, however.

A combination of local incompetence and the little acknowledged fact that the French forced (at gun point from battleships) the Haitians to pay for the entirety of the land confiscated from white French citizens.

They didn’t pay off that debt until the end 1940s.

Not a good way to start building a nation.