Should 11-year-old girls have to bear their rapists' babies? Ohio says yes

[Samm]

@bluedogdem

Let me make myself perfectly clear to you… ■■■■ that baby… 17 weeks 17 days 17 hours I would kill it dead every time …

Good to know. Now what does that have to do with my statement?

[Jezcoe]

@Samm

@Jezcoe

@Samm

@Jezcoe

Late Term abortions are not illegal everywhere.

I personally think that they should be legal because a ton of medical things can still go wrong in the third trimester and to take off of the table a medical procedure is causing more harm than good.

So yes… this is still down to a moral choice.

Again, you are talking about law, not morality.

Of course we are talking about morality.

It is impossible to have a conversation around abortion without bringing morality into it.

It isn’t like a discussion around jaywalking.

“Late term abortions are not illegal everywhere.”

That is a legal statement, not a moral one. Please read my posts in the context that they were made. It will make this discussion much less confusing and contentious.

Are we in a “The Card says Moops” situation where we just can’t have a conversation like humans would?

[Samm]

I thought we were having a conversation.

[Jezcoe]

@Samm

I thought we were having a conversation.

But dude… getting seriously in the weeds with the legal vs moral thing.

Not quite sure what is going on.

[Samm]

@Jezcoe

@Samm

I thought we were having a conversation.

But dude… getting seriously in the weeds with the legal vs moral thing.

Not quite sure what is going on.

Pretty obvious … You stated law and called it morality. That was where you went and not the weeds.

[JayJay]

@Samm

@Jezcoe

@Samm

That’s right, but we are not talking about a six week old fetus in this case. According to the story, the girl was 17 weeks pregnant before her mother discovered it. Several more weeks passed before this issue became public. The girl is now in her third trimester.

In the case of a rape of an eleven year old girl, where her choice to become pregnant was stripped away from her, then it is a greater moral hazard for the State to force her to carry that to term if her guardians deem that she should not have to.

I agree entirely. But what wrong did the baby commit to warrant the death penalty? There is NO good resolution to this or any other such incident.

I don’t hear anyone claiming there is a good resolution to this situation.

[thinkingman]

@Konssurvative1

Why do you say that? Why is a fetus to get higher priority than a living 11 year old? Who makes that rule…and why because you say it, does that make it so?

because i believe it is an innocent human life which we must do all we can to protect

ideally this is done with no lasting physical harm to the victim

[thinkingman]

@LucyLou

@thinkingman

there is one aspect of this that i argue we should all consider first and foremost - that we hold innocent life (all human life really) in the highest regard then go from there

iow, the first priority should be to the fetus/ baby. as much as practically possible

Why can’t the first priority be the little girl who was violently painfully vaginally penetrated by a much stronger and older animal? Why not let her parents decide.

If it were your 11 year old daughter violently raped by an older man, as a parent you have the right to make the fetus your first priority. Why can’t these parents choose to make their daughter the first priority?

she is also a priority

note i said as practical as possible. i am not suggesting she be sacrificed for good of baby.

docs may well say this wont end well for either of them. then go from there

many without hesitation are saying kill the baby. i argue we should not just automatically jump to that course of action.

[conan]

Because there isn’t one.

[thinkingman]

@JayJay

@thinkingman

@JayJay

@thinkingman

@calirepub

@Konssurvative1

A 6 to 8 lb full term fetus needs space. That 6 to 8 lb fetus is going to find the space regardless. Which if her body cannot accommodate can cause damage to internal organs. Vital organs. How do you not understand that?

Forcing an 11 year old to go through that is the most immoral thing I can think of. I don’t care if you’re a Christian, Muslim, Jew, Hindu, whatever. It is wrong to force a child to give birth.

worse than killing an innocent life?

We all…EVERY ONE OF US…make decisions between and place different values upon competing sets of innocent lives all the time.

The thing of it is…you don’t admit that to yourself. You think it’s all black and white.

there is one aspect of this that i argue we should all consider first and foremost - that we hold innocent life (all human life really) in the highest regard then go from there

iow, the first priority should be to the fetus/ baby. as much as practically possible

So now you argue that it’s practical to make an 11-year old bear a child that is the product of rape?

In what way is this at all practical?

What value are you placing on the 11-year-old girl and her parents and family with this calculus?

Be that as it may, you didn’t listen to what I said.

I guarantee you that you yourself do not hold to your own value system, and that you yourself will value less vulnerable people over more vulnerable people given the correct context.

i am certainly not saying that it is “practical”

[Jezcoe]

@Samm

@Jezcoe

@Samm

I thought we were having a conversation.

But dude… getting seriously in the weeds with the legal vs moral thing.

Not quite sure what is going on.

Pretty obvious … You stated law and called it morality. That was where you went and not the weeds.

It is morality that informs the law.

Wouldn’t you agree?

[Konssurvative1]

Ideally sure, but you realize the odds both physically and psychologically stacked against the child by carrying the fetus full term.

[occu]

Of course not, seems to be a common thread among most who are against an abortion for this girl, is a belief in a moral code from a holy book.

[bluedogdem]

Some of you all have serious issues… Make a 11 year keep a rape baby… This thread has been a big eye opener

[Samm]

@JayJay

@Samm

@Jezcoe

@Samm

That’s right, but we are not talking about a six week old fetus in this case. According to the story, the girl was 17 weeks pregnant before her mother discovered it. Several more weeks passed before this issue became public. The girl is now in her third trimester.

In the case of a rape of an eleven year old girl, where her choice to become pregnant was stripped away from her, then it is a greater moral hazard for the State to force her to carry that to term if her guardians deem that she should not have to.

I agree entirely. But what wrong did the baby commit to warrant the death penalty? There is NO good resolution to this or any other such incident.

I don’t hear anyone claiming there is a good resolution to this situation.

Do you mean like this?

@bluedogdem

Let me make myself perfectly clear to you… ■■■■ that baby… 17 weeks 17 days 17 hours I would kill it dead every time …

[JayJay]

@Samm

@JayJay

@Samm

@Jezcoe

@Samm

That’s right, but we are not talking about a six week old fetus in this case. According to the story, the girl was 17 weeks pregnant before her mother discovered it. Several more weeks passed before this issue became public. The girl is now in her third trimester.

In the case of a rape of an eleven year old girl, where her choice to become pregnant was stripped away from her, then it is a greater moral hazard for the State to force her to carry that to term if her guardians deem that she should not have to.

I agree entirely. But what wrong did the baby commit to warrant the death penalty? There is NO good resolution to this or any other such incident.

I don’t hear anyone claiming there is a good resolution to this situation.

Do you mean like this?

@bluedogdem

Let me make myself perfectly clear to you… ■■■■ that baby… 17 weeks 17 days 17 hours I would kill it dead every time …

OK- you found one person…pat yourself on the back.

[Samm]

@Jezcoe

@Samm

@Jezcoe

@Samm

I thought we were having a conversation.

But dude… getting seriously in the weeds with the legal vs moral thing.

Not quite sure what is going on.

Pretty obvious … You stated law and called it morality. That was where you went and not the weeds.

It is morality that informs the law.

Wouldn’t you agree?

No, I would not. Murder is not immoral because the law makes it illegal, and likewise, abortion is not moral because the law permits it.

[JayJay]

@Samm

No, I would not. Murder is not immoral because the law makes it illegal, and likewise, abortion is not moral because the law permits it.

That does not invalidate what @Jezcoe said.

You are simply taking a narrower view.

[Samm]

@occu

Of course not, seems to be a common thread among most who are against an abortion for this girl, is a belief in a moral code from a holy book.

How do you arrive at that conclusion? Have I mentioned God other than in response to your post? Have I said anything that would indicate that I believe in God or the Bible or that morality comes from either or both?

[Jezcoe]

@Samm

@Jezcoe

@Samm

@Jezcoe

@Samm

I thought we were having a conversation.

But dude… getting seriously in the weeds with the legal vs moral thing.

Not quite sure what is going on.

Pretty obvious … You stated law and called it morality. That was where you went and not the weeds.

It is morality that informs the law.

Wouldn’t you agree?

No, I would not. Murder is not immoral because the law makes it illegal, and likewise, abortion is not moral because the law permits it.

What?

The Abortion debate is a conflict of two competing and equally valid moral concepts.

The sanctity of life and body autonomy.

That is the central conflict in designing law around this issue.

It isn’t a black and white moral issue no matter how much one wants to claim that it is.