Rep. Jeff Duncan, R-S.C., perpetuates the fraudulent and deceptive Fair Tax con

Politics
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How do we know that?
Duncan did not say there will be zero forms to fill out, zero punishment for comitting perjury nor that there will be zero employees monitoring his proposed consumption tax.

He did not say those things.
The article did not say those things.

The bill has 30co-sponosrs (all republicans)
and its summary (written by the CRS) reads in part

This bill imposes a national sales tax on the use or consumption in the United States of taxable property or services in lieu of the current income taxes, payroll taxes, and estate and gift taxes. The rate of the sales tax will be 23% in 2023, with adjustments to the rate in subsequent years. There are exemptions from the tax for used and intangible property; for property or services purchased for business, export, or investment purposes; and for state government functions. . . .

the bill terminates the national sales tax if the Sixteenth Amendment to the Constitution (authorizing an income tax) is not repealed within seven years after the enactment of this bill.

Each referring to the proposal years (decades??) ago
Heritage calls switching to a sales/consumption tax a “win.”
Freedom Socialist Party calls it “maybe worst idea ever.”

CATO, which does not weigh-in on individual bills has supported the idea for years
https://www.cato.org/policy-analysis/emancipating-america-income-tax-how-national-sales-tax-would-work
https://www.cato.org/speeches/economic-civil-liberties-case-national-sales-tax

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We find out by studying the text of the proposed FAIR TAX

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How many times a week do you read texts of entire proposed bills?

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I’m getting the impression you are on board with Nancy Pelosi and passing Bills so we can find out what’s in them.

Well, unfortunately, we found out how that works.

JWK

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No, I just don’t feel we need to study them to be allowed to discuss them.

Do we do that on every thread relating to something on congress?
How many times have you personally done it?

21

Tell me, how do you discuss the Fair Tax (H.R. 25) intelligently if you haven’t read the proposed legislation?

Do you know how I found out about the Fair Tax creating two new tax collecting agencies in addition to keeping the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms alive which will also be collecting taxes? I discovered that by reading the Bill:

SEC. 302. ADMINISTRATION OF OTHER FEDERAL TAXES.
(a) In General.—Section 7801 of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986 (relating to the authority of the Department of the Treasury) is amended by adding at the end the following:

“(d) Excise Tax Bureau.—There shall be in the Department of the Treasury an Excise Tax Bureau to administer those excise taxes not administered by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.

“(e) Sales Tax Bureau.—There shall be in the Department of the Treasury a Sales Tax Bureau to administer the national sales tax in those States where it is required pursuant to section 404, and to discharge other Federal duties and powers relating to the national sales tax (including those required by sections 402, 403, and 405). The Office of Revenue Allocation shall be within the Sales Tax Bureau.”.

Do you know how I found out that working people who sell the property each has in their labor must register with government to exercise a fundamental right of mankind? I found it out by reading the Bill.

“SEC. 502. REGISTRATION.

“(a) In General.—Any person liable to collect and remit taxes pursuant to section 103(a) who is engaged in a trade or business shall register as a seller with the sales tax administering authority administering the taxes imposed by this subtitle.

So, tell me, how do you discuss the Fair Tax (H.R. 25) intelligently if you haven’t read the proposed legislation?

JWK

“The property which every man has in his own labor, as it is the original foundation of all other property, so it is the most sacred and inviolable. The patrimony of the poor man lies in the strength and dexterity of his own hands; and to hinder him from employing this strength and dexterity in what manner he thinks proper, without injury to his neighbor, is a plain violation of this most sacred property.” ___ Butchers’ Union Co. v. Crescent City Co., 111 U.S. 746 (1884)

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I asked first.
How many full text bills do you read?

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image

I can’t recall, but I do not suggest what proposed legislation will do or not do without first studying the legislation. Now, how about answering my previous post?

JWK

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Oh this one??? :point_down: okay

The answer is apparently I cannot.

I will discuss this with you after after read it.

Please send me a link to the bill you read

25

I found an old copy

what understanding do you get when you read
Section 603 (b)

A Taxpayer Assistance Order may only be rescinded or modified by the problem resolution officer that issued it, by the highest official in the relevant sales tax administering authority or by its general counsel upon a finding that the collection activity is justified by clear and convincing evidence. The authority to reverse this Taxpayer Assistance Order may not be delegated.

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It is absolutely sickening how many so-called “conservatives” are promoting the alleged Fair Tax which keeps Congress’ power to lay and collect taxes calculated from profits, gains and other “incomes” alive while imposing an additional tax which increases the number of tax returns required to be filed to 12 frickin times a year!

In any even see:

JWK

“To lay with one hand the power of the government on the property of the citizen [a working person’s earned wage] and with the other to bestow upon favored individuals, to aid private enterprises and build up private fortunes is none the less a robbery because it is done under forms of law and called taxation.”____ Savings and Loan Association v.Topeka,(1875).[/

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I already provided you with a link to the text of the Fair Tax HERE. And if you study the proposal, you will find what I posted HERE is accurate.

JWK

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Yes I am reading it (as I said)
and
(as I said) since you read it
When you read it cover to cover (as I said)
I asked you to tell me what did you understand from
Section 603 (b)

A Taxpayer Assistance Order may only be rescinded or modified by the problem resolution officer that issued it, by the highest official in the relevant sales tax administering authority or by its general counsel upon a finding that the collection activity is justified by clear and convincing evidence. The authority to reverse this Taxpayer Assistance Order may not be delegated.
[/quote]

Please tell me.
When you read that section what did your reading of that section mean to you?
What was your understanding when you read it?

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What I understand about SEC. 603 (b) is, it has to do with setting up a “Problem Resolution Office” which I am not interested in and have no comments on.

“SEC. 603. PROBLEM RESOLUTION OFFICES.

“(a) Problem Resolution Office To Be Established.—Each sales tax administering authority shall establish an independent Problem Resolution Office and appoint an adequate number of problem resolution officers. The head of the problem resolution office must be appointed by, and serve at the pleasure of either the State Governor (in the case of an administering State) or the President of the United States.

“(b) Authority Of Problem Resolution Officers.—Problem resolution officers shall have the authority to investigate complaints and issue a Taxpayer Assistance Order to administratively enjoin any collection activity if, in the opinion of the problem resolution officer, said collection activity is reasonably likely to not be in compliance with law or to prevent hardship (other than by reason of having to pay taxes lawfully due). Problem resolution officers shall also have the authority to issue Taxpayer Assistance Orders releasing or returning property that has been levied upon or seized, ordering that a lien be released and that garnished wages be returned. A Taxpayer Assistance Order may only be rescinded or modified by the problem resolution officer that issued it, by the highest official in the relevant sales tax administering authority or by its general counsel upon a finding that the collection activity is justified by clear and convincing evidence. The authority to reverse this Taxpayer Assistance Order may not be delegated.

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The FairTax might as well be called the Nanny Tax

.
When one takes the time to study the provisions of the “Fair Tax” they soon realize ordinary working people, like the married couple down the block, Mary and Joe, will not only have to file Fair Tax returns twelve times a year, but register with government to exercise their inalienable right to sell the property each has in their own labor.

Let us look at Mary and Joe who have two children and find it necessary to earn extra money to pay their bills. Mary baby sits for neighbors in the community and cleans homes on weekends to raise extra money while Joe, who works for a plumbing company as a full-time job, also provides plumbing services on his own time to people living in his community.

Under the alleged FairTax Mary and Joe’s inalienable right to sell the property they have in their labor becomes a taxable event and must register with government [“SEC. 502. REGISTRATION”], to sell the property they have in their labor, collect a 23 percent federal tax for Congress [“SEC. 101. IMPOSITION OF SALES TAX] when selling their labor, and file Fair Tax returns under the penalty of perjury twelve times a year [“SEC. 501. MONTHLY REPORTS AND PAYMENTS].

Additionally, Mary and Joe will also be compelled to keep any records Congress may dream up [“SEC. 508. RECORDS] and live under the constant threat of audits [“SEC. 507. SUMMONS, EXAMINATIONS, AUDITS, ETC.], if they dare to sell the property they have in their labor. Now keep in mind how direct taxation is currently being used to threaten, intimidate, and harass political opponents.

Why on earth would any Freedom Caucus member support the Nanny Tax, AKA the Fair Tax?

JWK

"The property which every man has in his own labor, as it is the original foundation of all other property, so it is the most sacred and inviolable. The patrimony of the poor man lies in the strength and dexterity of his own hands; and to hinder him from employing this strength and dexterity in what manner he thinks proper, without injury to his neighbor, is a plain violation of this most sacred property." ___ Butchers’ Union Co. v. Crescent City Co., 111 U.S. 746 (1884)

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Why do we even need taxes? Just print money as usual! Oh, this is just the opening round of negotiation, they won’t be getting rid of the income tax anytime soon. We should because it just funds these fed agencies that are full of corrupt people. See russian collusion or hunters lap top. Or biden’s actually stealing classified docs like Hillary.

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Why on earth do you say that when the FAIR TAX ACT established an entirely new tax, keeps Congress’ power to lay and collect taxes calculated from incomes alive, requires taxpayers to file Fair Tax returns twelve times a year, requires ordinary working people to register with government in order to sell the property each has in their own labor, requires taxpayers to keep whatever records Congress may dream up, and creates a new entitlement that would become another issue used during election time to buy votes.

Why on earth would any politician support this rope-a-dope proposal which strengthens the federal government’s iron grip around the American people’s necks?

JWK

“The property which every man has in his own labor, as it is the original foundation of all other property, so it is the most sacred and inviolable. The patrimony of the poor man lies in the strength and dexterity of his own hands; and to hinder him from employing this strength and dexterity in what manner he thinks proper, without injury to his neighbor, is a plain violation of this most sacred property.” ___ Butchers’ Union Co. v. Crescent City Co., 111 U.S. 746 (1884)

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Well, peek-a-boo?

Why would the conservative leadership in the House, who I believe you are really referring to, do what you assert when they are promoting the Fair Tax and if adopted, the Fair Tax would do all the bad things I listed IN MY LAST POST?

Are you suggesting the Republican Leadershjip, just like the Democrat Leadership, want to destroy our country using the force of government?

JWK

“We often give enemies the means of our own destruction.” – Aesop.

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As the Weimar Republic did, which appears to be what our current federal leadership wants.

JWK

As nightfall does not come at once, neither does oppression. In both instances there is a twilight where everything remains seemingly unchanged. And it is in such twilight that we all must be aware of change in the air - however slight - lest we become unwitting victims of darkness.___Supreme Court Justice William Douglas

1 Like
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My response was directed solely at the deal making aspect. I have no opinion one way or another on the flat tax. I just know that it has zero chance of becoming law.