Rep. Jeff Duncan, R-S.C., perpetuates the fraudulent and deceptive Fair Tax con


"As a former small business owner, I understand the unnecessary burden our failing income tax system has on Americans. The Fair Tax Act eliminates the tax code, replaces the income tax with a sales tax, and abolishes the abusive Internal Revenue Service. If enacted, this will invigorate the American taxpayer and help more Americans achieve the American Dream," Rep. Jeff Duncan, R-S.C., said."

First of all, and with regard to the selling point that the Fair Tax “… abolishes the abusive Internal Revenue Service …”, in its place Duncan’s proposal creates two new tax collecting agencies, an “Excise Tax Bureau” and the “Sales Tax Bureau", in addition to keeping the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms alive which will also be collecting taxes.

Also, the alleged “Fair Tax”, if adopted, does not abolish federal taxes calculated from various types of “incomes” as suggested. Congress will still maintain the power to lay and collect “excise taxes” calculated from profits and gains, such as the Corporate Excise tax of 1909. So, right from the beginning, Rep. Duncan is suggesting something that is not true. The same IRS abuses now suffered under income taxation will continue under the fraudulent and deceptive Fair Tax, carried out under its “Excise Tax Bureau”.

And if you think businesses and individuals subject to the Fair Tax are free from filling out annual tax returns, the shocking truth is, they will have to start filling out and filing Fair Tax returns, under the penalty of perjury, every month ___ that’s twelve frickin times a year! Additionally, even ordinary working people, who sell the property each has in their own labor, and work odd jobs, such as baby sitting, handyman jobs etc., to meet today’s high cost of living, not only will they have to file Fair Tax returns twelve times a year, but will have to register with the federal government to exercise their inalienable right to sell their labor.

If the above is not enough to make one recoil from the notoriously evil and deceptive Fair Tax proposal, the Fair Tax would also create another entitlement called the “family consumption allowance”, which is a monthly government check sent to every household in America which allows the purchase of a rationed supply of tax-free necessities of life, and puts our entire population on the public dole!

If Rep. Duncan has one ounce of honesty in him, he would reject the alleged Fait Tax and promote the Fair Share Balance Budget Amendment which actually would abolish all federal taxes calculated from lawfully earned profits, gains, wages, etc. and end the miseries suffered under the evil tax on incomes.


When Federal Reserve Notes were made a legal tender in violation of our Constitution, and a direct un-apportioned tax was imposed upon the people without their consent, America’s free enterprise, free market system was subjugated, and the tools of oppression were made available to some very immoral and nefariously evil people.

This is a political stunt to placate RW extremists and to get McCarthy elected speaker. There is absolutely zero chance this goes anywhere.

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From the article

Republicans in the House of Representatives will vote on a bill that would abolish the Internal Revenue Service (IRS), eliminate the national income tax, and replace it with a national consumption tax.

Fox News Digital has learned that the House will be voting on Georgia Republican Rep. Buddy Carter’s reintroduced Fair Tax Act that aims to reel in the IRS and remove the national income tax, as well as other taxes, and replace them with a single consumption tax.

It’s a great idea.
It’s probably doomed to fail, but it’s a great idea.

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I am all for this type of tax reform but it will go nowhere. Too many lobbyists throwing around huge sums of money to maintain the status quo plus no real desire by our elected reps to make such a radical change.

I’m betting it won’t even make it out of the House. But even if it does it will be DOA in the Senate. It will never make it to Biden’s desk for signature.

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Ironically this was a no-brainer concession for McCarthy, regardless of his position on the matter. He has to know that it will go nowhere.


To our own detriment, americans borrow too much, spend too much and save too little.
It’s a long term problem. It has been that way for decades.

But now might be a good time to address the problem.

You probably did not read the full OP or the text of the alledged FAIR TAX. It has always been a rope-a-dope con job from the very start and does not do what its ring leaders say it will do.


I read both (I don’t always. sometimes I skim. But this time Iread both.)
I felt your characterization was unfair but I chose not to focus on that. Why be negative when you and I agree on so much?

Instead I pivoted to the fact that this proposal is for a consumption based income tax, which is an excellent idea.

If the old forum archives we still available you could probably find hundreds of posts by me (then known as LongIslandBob) to that effect.

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unfair? What I posted is accurate. I have followed this Fair Tax con job for over 20 years. What exactly have I posted that you disagree with?

Well if you want to go there . . .
You made a series of strawmen without addressing the underlying bill

No one said “the federal government will have zero employees monitoring the new system,.” Of course it will.

The tax will not be on incomes it will be on consumption.
Your income can be a zillion dollars or a thousand. If you spend a thousand dollars on consumption, your taxes will be on that.

Penalties for perjury?
Yes lying will not be legal under the proposal. No one is suggesting it will be so why bet them up for not legalizing lying?

And yes you will have to fill out a simple form

  1. How much did you make?
  2. Subtract what your saved.
  3. That’s what you spent, now pay a percentage of that.

A man who saves and invests his money does a lot more for himself, his family and for the economy than the man who spends it on snazzy cars, hot-rocking sneakers and trips to Cancun. It not wrong to tax those two men differently. Right now the money a person spends on beer in Cancun is taxed at the same rate as money spent building jobs and building he economy. That is counterproductive.


Are all taxes which are calculated from profits, gains and various other sources abolished under the Fair Tax? If so, provide the wording from H.R. 25.

As you know, I support the Fair Share Balanced Budget Amendment which would actually force Congress to return to taxing consumption as its primary method to raise a federal revenue and would end all federal taxes calculated from lawfully earned “incomes”.

What is your above point with regard to me and what I have posted in the thread?

I’m gonna pass on digging through the bill and arguing the legalese.

The proposal is to replace the tax code with a consumption based tax, sometimes called a national sales tax. The article you linked describes it twice as a consumption tax and once as a sales tax.

You chose to ignore that and instead argued against statements no one made.

I was and remain willing to give a you a pass on that, Discussing others debating techniques is not my favorite thing to do here.

The actual issue here is replacing an income tax with a consumption tax.

  • Man A and Man B earn the same amount
  • Man A spends his money drinking wine on the French Riviera
  • Man B drinks no wine on the French Riviera. He saves his money in a bank so ultimately his money is used to create jobs and advance technology.

Why should Man B have the same tax bill as Man A? Why should his annual savings flow be taxed a sif it were spent overseas on wine?

Argue? Rep. Duncan is putting forth a proposed piece of legislation. The text of the proposed legislation does not do what is alleged it will do, e.g., we are led to believe it will end all taxes calculated from gains, profits, and other incomes. It will not. We are led to believe the miseries we now suffer under income taxation will end. They won’t. In the end, if the proposed legislation is adopted, not only will an across-the-board national tax on consumption be put into effect, but taxes calculated from various “incomes” will still be available to Congress and, our entire nation’s population will be put on the public dole creating a new entitlement which will be used as a leverage during election time.

I think it is a mistake to not study the legislation and determine what it will, and will not do, prior to giving it our support.


When Federal Reserve Notes were made a legal tender in violation of our Constitution, and a direct un-apportioned tax was imposed upon the people without their consent, America’s free enterprise, free market system was subjugated, and the tools of oppression were made available to some very immoral and nefariously evil people.

How do we know that?
Duncan did not say there will be zero forms to fill out, zero punishment for comitting perjury nor that there will be zero employees monitoring his proposed consumption tax.

He did not say those things.
The article did not say those things.

The bill has 30co-sponosrs (all republicans)
and its summary (written by the CRS) reads in part

This bill imposes a national sales tax on the use or consumption in the United States of taxable property or services in lieu of the current income taxes, payroll taxes, and estate and gift taxes. The rate of the sales tax will be 23% in 2023, with adjustments to the rate in subsequent years. There are exemptions from the tax for used and intangible property; for property or services purchased for business, export, or investment purposes; and for state government functions. . . .

the bill terminates the national sales tax if the Sixteenth Amendment to the Constitution (authorizing an income tax) is not repealed within seven years after the enactment of this bill.

Each referring to the proposal years (decades??) ago
Heritage calls switching to a sales/consumption tax a “win.”
Freedom Socialist Party calls it “maybe worst idea ever.”

CATO, which does not weigh-in on individual bills has supported the idea for years

We find out by studying the text of the proposed FAIR TAX

How many times a week do you read texts of entire proposed bills?

I’m getting the impression you are on board with Nancy Pelosi and passing Bills so we can find out what’s in them.

Well, unfortunately, we found out how that works.


No, I just don’t feel we need to study them to be allowed to discuss them.

Do we do that on every thread relating to something on congress?
How many times have you personally done it?