Life without the Fall

Loving and serving God and one another.

What would life be like if no one used others for their own gain and purposes?

Had the Fall never happened, we’d still be in the Satya Yuga (the Golden Age), where humanity was the purest it would be.

How so?

Would we have cities like we have today?

Since there was no Fall, there would be no curse on the land, no curse on childbirth, etc. etc. There’d be no disease.

The animals would not have been cursed either and we’d all be vegetarians?

My questions are:

  1. Would God have taken a personal interest in everyone - as he’s capable of doing? So when people go on their “walk with God,” they actually would be going on a walk with God who could give them guidance every step of the way?

  2. Would God have continued to test his creations on a periodic basis?

  3. Would we all go around naked - but with bodies worth showing off, hopefully?

  4. If Adam and Eve hadn’t eaten of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, they’d have no knowledge of good and evil. So they’d do what God told them to do because God told them to do it, not because of any innate sense that they should do this becaues it’s “good” and not do that because it’s “evil.”

Well, if you are going back to the beginning, I haven’t a clue. Maybe we would have discovered a way to make the entire solar system habitable and I would be happily living on the rings of Saturn, eagerly skiing on an asteroid circling Pluto.

It’s an intellectual exercise.

You just said we’d all be loving and serving each other.

Can’t you expand on that a bit?

Shrug. I just went back to the beginning where the Commandment was to love and serve God; love and serve one’s fellow man. My premise is that we are all Adam, all Eve, each one of us given the opportunity to succeed where they failed.

What would the world be like if an entire generation succeeded?

Why would you think they don’t?

Would we have a far more socialist system, perhaps even communism? Not sure how capitalism fits into this non-sinning world. How would I make my second million while my fellow man is begging on the street ?

No. Remember, there is no evil. :wink:

C.S. Lewis hit the nail on the head with his description. People would be more liberal than today’s conservatives would like, and more conservative than the liberals would be comfortable with. Industry would still exist but not be fueled by rampant consumerism but by the desire to provide for everyone in need and not at the expense of the environment as people would be concerned about being good stewards of something that wasn’t theirs instead of exploiting it to get what they felt was their due.

What keeps coming to my mind is that all those with land had to leave a certain amount around the edges for gleaners–for those who could not afford to buy the crop. What if all businesses and corporations followed that policy–that they left a certain percentage of merchandise for gleaners–those who picked from what was left around the edges?

This doesn’t sound like capitalism at all and seems to be closer to socialism or even communism.

That’s because you are looking toward the center from the extreme left. It looks closer to your Marxism than it does to the crony corporatism you see in the far distance from your present position, which you see as normal capitalism.

1 Like

It is still capitalism, but capitalism with the focus of caring for all of creation, not just shareholders.

1 Like

After reading this thread a quote from a letter from Sun Lotus (Nichiren) comes to mind. It explains a perspective of past, present and future in the single moment and the awareness of vast time periods that make “Sumeria” and known ancient events very recent. It is the perspective of Mahayana Buddhism, revealed by the Buddha of Kuon Ganjo (time without beginning.)

A Sage Perceives the Three Existences of Life (Written 1275AD)

"A SAGE is one who fully understands the three existences of life—past, present, and future.

The Three Sovereigns, Five Emperors, and Three Sages referred to in Confucianism understood only the present; they knew neither the past nor the future.

Brahmanists, however, were able to see eighty thousand kalpas into the past and future, thus in a small way resembling sages.

People of the two vehicles of the Hinayana teachings were aware of the causes and effects in the past and future. Hence they were superior to the Brahmanists.

The Hinayana bodhisattvas spent three asamkhya kalpas in the past in their practice, and the bodhisattvas of the connecting teaching spent as many kalpas as there are dust particles in the past in their practice.

The bodhisattvas of the specific teaching knew myriad kotis of kalpas in the past in each of the stages of their practice.

In the theoretical teaching of the Lotus Sutra, Shakyamuni Buddha spoke about a time major world system dust particle kalpas in the past. This teaching surpassed all the previous ones of his preaching life. Moreover, in the essential teaching of the sutra, the Buddha spoke about numberless major world system dust particle kalpas ago and about all the kalpas that have ever passed, and he made proclamations concerning matters countless kalpas in the future.

From the above it is clear that a thorough understanding of both the past and the future is intrinsic to the nature of a sage. Shakyamuni Buddha, the lord of teachings, accurately predicted the near future, saying that he would enter nirvana in three months’ time. Can there then be any doubt about his prediction for the distant future, that in the last five-hundred-year period after his passing, the Lotus Sutra would spread abroad widely? With such perception one can see the distant future by looking at what is close at hand. One can infer what will be from what exists in the present. This is the meaning of [the passage from the Lotus Sutra that says, “This reality consists of] the appearance . . . and their consistency from beginning to end.”

Who should be acknowledged as the votary of the Lotus Sutra in the last five-hundred-year period? I do not yet trust my own wisdom, but because the rebellion and invasion that I predicted have occurred, I must trust it. I do not say this just to impress others.

My disciples, know this! I am the votary of the Lotus Sutra. Since I follow in the footsteps of Bodhisattva Never Disparaging, those who despise and slander me will have their heads broken into seven pieces, while those who believe in me will amass good fortune as high as Mount Calm and Bright.

Question: Why is it that those who slander you have not yet had their heads broken into seven pieces?

Answer: Since ancient times, of all those who slandered sages other than the Buddha, only one or two have suffered punishment by having their heads broken. The offense of defaming Nichiren is not by any means limited to only one or two persons. The entire populace of Japan has in fact [slandered Nichiren and] had their heads broken. What else do you think caused the great earthquake of the Shƍka era and the huge comet of the Bun’ei era?

I, Nichiren, am the foremost sage in all Jambudvīpa. Nevertheless, from the ruler on down to the common people, all have despised and slandered me, attacked me with swords and staves,

That is why Brahmā, Shakra, the gods of the sun and moon, and the four heavenly kings have incited a neighboring country to punish our land.

This is clearly described in the Great Collection and Benevolent Kings sutras, the Nirvana Sutra, and the Lotus Sutra. Even if ten thousand prayers were to be offered, if the people fail to heed me, it is certain that this country will experience what happened on Iki and Tsushima.

My disciples, you should believe what I say and watch what happens. These things do not occur because I myself am respectworthy, but because the power of the Lotus Sutra is supreme. If I praise myself, people will think that I am boastful, but if I humble myself, they will despise the sutra. The taller the pine tree, the longer the wisteria vine hanging from it. The deeper the source, the longer the stream. How fortunate, how joyful! In this impure land, I alone enjoy happiness and delight."

[(PDF) Did the Cosmic impact described in the Hindu Epic Mahabharata cause the Piora Oscillation? | Dr. Jayasree Saranathan - Academia.edu

For those who like to research the more difficult aspects of these histories and the above topic:

Book Five of the Mahabharata, is the fundamental reference to the occurance.

The Mahabharata, Book 5: Udyoga Parva Index sacred-texts.com