Are trade deficits not measured in dollars?
When people who ahve never opposed a tax before suddenly and magically
- layout the reasons âtariffs are badâ
- and then list a bunch of reasons that apply to all taxes including those they have supported (distortions, higher prices, reduced consumption etc.)
THEY are making it binary.
THEY are being dishonest and not just ordinary politician hypocrites they are being absolute sell-outs.
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If trade unbalance decimated our steel industry, ability to quickly assemble heavy equipment, pharmaceuticals, mining, energy, food and microchips etc. Would you say that is threat to our nation?
I really donât care if cloths are made in Asia or any other place.
As for stuff being made overseas. When you have logs shipped half way around the world, processed and shipped again half way around the world in lumber, someone is making a profit and itâs not American working people.
And irony of itâŠitâs not cheaper.
So what other reason for doing so?
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At least we now know the numbers are fake. As expected.
I doubt it.
So a trade deficit number being converted to a percent tariff is valid? That would work on an economics test?
I understood your questions and that you are engaging in circular reasoning and not looking at the end result at all. I pointed out that other countries have had tarrifs on us for decades. Your response was you donât care because tariffs are only taxes nations impose on their own citizens. Why then do you believe people in other countries care if we are only hurting ourselves by imposing tariffs on them? Clearly, the leaders and citizens of other countries are very upset by what Trump did. Your response doesnât make sense.
As for disadvantages, do you believe itâs a good idea for our country to have to rely on other countries for vital things that we can make, or already have here? What happens if antagonism or outright hostilities break out? We ought to be producing everything we possibly can to make ourselves independent.
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There are certainly other factors that contributed to Detroitâ fall, but it absolutely became the auto manufacturing powerhouse of the world because of Capitalism. The US was a great manufacturing nation until fairly recently. Within the last 30-35 years our manufacturing companies have left by the thousands. If we donât reverse the course weâve been on our economy will crash beyond recovery.
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The United States manufactures more today in real dollar value than at any point in history, far more than we did 30 or 50 years ago. Manufacturing output is the highest itâs ever been. We are the 2nd largest manufacturing nation on the planet.
Manufacturing jobs are far fewer because of productivity gains, aka capitalism. We could probably increase employment in the industry if we brought in the luddites but that doesnât seem like such a great plan this time around, either.
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We are importing steel we used to make. We are importing cars we used to make. We import things we need that our national security depends on. We have the ability and materials we need to manufacturer much of what we need AND return to exporting our products around the world, as they import their stuff into our country. Something wrong with a level playing field?
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On the car front, the majority of cars sold here are built here. Nissan, Toyota, Mercedes, Volkswagen, everyone has factories scattered all over the country. Especially here in the south.
There are a few that are actually imported but theyâre usually specific models in a manufacturers portfolio or they are smaller manufacturers without an established prescience in the states. Like Mazdaâs Miata for example. Thatâs honestly the car Iâm worried about with these tariffs. Itâs already a hard sell (really small 2 seat sports convertible thatâs down on power but itâs the best car in the world to toss around at speed limit; itâs slow enough not to get you in trouble or hurt yourself so itâs one of those rare models that can be fully enjoyed on public roads) and the sells have been dwindling for years. Itâs only built in Japan, like it should be and has always been since 1989. Itâs a bit of a legendary car in the community but Iâm scared this might be just one more thing that kills it. And the world will be a worse place when it is discontinued. Like how the world has really been trash since the Viper left the world.
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We are also exporting cars we make. And steel we make. And some of the worldâs most advanced microchips.
I agree that we have a national interest in producing certain items, most especially steel. It might make sense to ensure we produce enough to meet domestic demand, then worry about exports. For just about everything else, I struggle with what weâre going to trade off - If weâre going to make more âxâ here, weâre going to have to give up âyâ. We donât have an unlimited labor force, nor do we have unlimited resources.
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Yeah.
Iâm not gong to defend those numbers.
And just putting those out there made Trump look like a fool.
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Once those Tesla bots come outâŠeverything changes.
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Oh my what a revealing statement.
Here is the answer: --WE-- donât have to decide.
Stop thinking like a central Soviet planner.
If we adopt your plan and ramp-up our steel mills
â maybe the US buys fewer chia pets.
â maybe the US grows fewer carrots
â maybe those items remain unchanged but fewer people study feminist poetry and then work in Starbuck. (The US produces fewer out-of-work feminist poets.)
Why are --WE-- even concerned about that decision?
The free market will make that decision and will make it much better than --WE-- will.
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The government is already interfering.
You have to be kidding. You are advocating for the government to decide what you can buy, telling us we canât buy this or that without paying a premium because the President doesnât like the people who made it⊠and accusing me, the person advocating for free markets, a Soviet? Thatâs absurd.
We is society. The free market is us deciding. We decide what we produce, what we buy, what we pay. If someone individually tries to produce something people donât like, we will fix the problem quite easily, turning those resources towards something people do want. Itâs an invisible hand - perhaps youâve heard of it? We control that hand.
It stuns me that a so-called free marketer wouldnât realize that we - yes we, everyone in Society - decided these things.
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Point is you are asking/worrying what people are gonna buy when Mexican tomatoes cost more. The obvious assumption is American grown substitute goods (like tomatoes), but I am not worried about it.
I am 100% sure the free market will make the right decision. In fact, I tend to define âright decisionâ that way.
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For reference:
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According to the USDA and trade.gov (links below)
Truckloads of tomatoes at the Mexican border cost $4,500 to $7,200 (quality) and average about 45,000 lbs -----> IOW $0.10-$0.18 per lb. -
U.S., tomatoes typically sell for $1.33 to $2.67 per pound (can go lower)
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If 100% of the tariff is passed on (supply and demand says it will not) then the tariff will add 4.5cents per lb.
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What PEOPLE are gonna by? You mean us? WE? But thatâs Soviet - style planning!
Which land that currently grows -x- do farmers plan to convert to growing -tomatoes-? and why should the free market allow a tax to drive that decision? I thought you just said you supported free markets.
You think the free market will make the right decision as long as the free market doesnât extend across borders - if it extends across borders we need to tax it.
(Iâm not the least bit worried about what people are gonna buy when Mexican tomatoes cost more)