Is there a wage gap? Probably not

Why are the 4 tradies all male and the admin assistants (I presume you meant that rather then assailants) all female in your example?

Okay. Since you’re such a nice guy, here it is. Courtesy of the inetrnet, Which is always right.

The mean pay gap is calculated by adding up hourly wages paid to full time male employees, and full time female employees . The sum for each category is then divided by the number of employees in each gender. Doing so reveals how much less, in percentage terms, women are paid per hour on average.

SO YOU AGREE, ITS JUNK. RIGHT?

Because I though it was a great way to illustrate my point. If you disagree, I have three other examples.

Either way, the formula they use is crap. Right? They wage gap doesn’t really exist for most companies. Companies who do practice sexism should be called out by name. Agree?

I don’t know where you get your information, but typically studies of wage disparity according to gender work with two figures: non-adjusted and adjusted wage differentials.

The non-adjusted approach – which are you are criticizing – finds that on average women make 78% of what men make.

However, since researchers have long recognized the problem with the non-adjusted method that you are raising here, most studies use an adjusted approach that eliminates differences in job titles and seniority so as to create a more defensible apples to apples comparison. Adjusted wage gap studies find differences in the 80-95% range.

So the wage gap is not as big as in the straw man approach that you have knocked down, but, in answer to question.

There definitely is a wage gap. That leads to the question of what should be done about it?

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That’s not at all how it’s done.

Nope. Not correct.

The gender pay gap figure is typically calculated by first adding together all of the annual salaries of women who are working full-time, year-round, then finding the median salary — that is, the salary that’s in the exact middle, with 50 percent of the women earning more than that figure and 50 percent earning less. Then the same calculation is made for men working full-time, year-round. Once those two figures are determined, you can compare them and calculate the pay gap [source: [Glynn]
(https://www.americanprogress.org/issues/economy/report/2014/05/19/90039/explaining-the-gender-wage-gap/)].

Which companies pay women with the exact skills and experience less than men? Name three or four. Mine does not. Does yours?

How is the Gender Pay Gap Determined? | HowStuffWorks text

Sorry. But that’s exactly how it’s done.

Yes that method is junk. But I am not aware that the wage gap is calculated that way.

Do you have a link to what you found

Your picking the straw person versions you want to knock down. That’s a waste of time. The field of gender studies has moved beyond what you are discussing.

The gender pay gap figure is typically calculated by first adding together all of the annual salaries of women who are working full-time, year-round, then finding the median salary — that is, the salary that’s in the exact middle, with 50 percent of the women earning more than that figure and 50 percent earning less. Then the same calculation is made for men working full-time, year-round. Once those two figures are determined, you can compare them and calculate the pay gap [source: Glynn].

It has not. The pay gap lie is still being promoted.

https://www2.census.gov/programs-surveys/demo/tables/industry-occupation/time-series/median-earnings-2018-final.xlsx

There are wage gaps by comparable position (eg, 90% for elementary school teachers)

But a very small wage gap when controlled for experience (I think 98% is a hair high, but I’d put it at 95% or so)

Most serious people who study this stuff understand that the issue is not evil companies shafting women, but rather, women are more likely to leave the workforce than men around age 30, reducing years of experience and subsequently, pay increases. Or, women simply slow down their career progression to manage family life.

Why do women leave the workforce or slow down their progression?

  1. Our parental leave policies in this country suck. It’s a national embarrassment.
  2. Child care is ridiculously expensive.
  3. Women are more likely to work in lower paying fields, so when it comes time for mom or sad to step back, it’s Mom.

Typical case: Mwevans family (anecdotes are usually useless but I think my story is typical)

Living in DC.
2015: Twins born.
Mwevans earns more than Mrs. Mwevans. Mrs. Mwevans has no maternity leave beyond FMLA (she is at a global engineering firm as a senior engineer/project manager - not some crappy job at a podunk outfit)
Mrs. Mwevans returns to work after 12 weeks. Nanny costs ~70% of Mrs. Mwevans’ take home pay (we didn’t use an illegal :frowning: )
After 3 months of work/parenting, Mrs. Mwevans says ■■■■■ this” - 50 hours of work and 50 hours of parenting is stupid. She hasn’t worked since
When Mrs. Mwevans returns, she’ll be paid like she was when she left, missing out on what was an upwardly mobile, promotion filled tenure.

It won’t be the fault of an evil company that she’ll be making less than others in her role. It’s much more that our 1950s approach to parental leave and the ridiculous cost of child care are teaming up to inhibit careers. Women tend to be in the lower paying careers so families make the logical economic choice.

(Also men are more likely to job jump due to pay and to negotiate salary, but those are behavioral issues that are changing)

You are the only one promoting it… by citing out of date methods and studies.

You picked one method, found a source and knocked it down. But this is just a starting point, and when you dig into the links and read the actual studies being done that way, they start right off by saying that these results don’t discuss the occupational differences and that you need to dig deeper.

Which as has been pointed out to you, not how it’s done when policy decisions are being debated.

Here’s one graph from another BLS report that DOES take occupation into account.

You are completely wrong and have set up a straw man in order to knock it down.

I dispute none of what you say. But the current method used to calculate the wage gap is a dishonest one. To be used for political purposes only.

Whiff. Can you quote the new stat used primarily by the left? No you cannot. Because it’s the same as the old stat. Because the calculation method is the same too. Based on a lie. :relaxed:

Look at this crap. They only use education and age. Not career choice or experience. It’s because they are lying liars who lie.

The commonly cited 82% number is an attention grabber that works well in Democratic candidate stump speeches. But it’s like saying that in 1992, Jack Morris went 21-6, so he was awesome (without looking at the ERA over 4 and the awesome run support)

Politicians never get to:

  • implicit biases in parents and teachers guiding girls toward non-STEM careers or deriding obvious leadership capabilities (I’m gonna smack anyone who calls one of my girls bossy)

  • Importance of he-to-she mentorship within companies

  • Why women are less likely to change jobs for a pay increase or negotiate salary upon taking a new role

Point is, there is a lot that goes into this.

There is but feds have already done what is required of them. They need to enforce this when required. And it’s rarely required.

The Equal Pay Act was signed in 1963, making it illegal for employers to pay unequal wages to men and women who hold the same job and do the same work.

If women are paid less for the same quality of work and all business owners all all profiteers, why don’t they all hire women until there are none unemployed?

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At the political rhetoric level it certainly is being promoted.

When you see someone touting a gap in the 75-80% range, you know they are using the non-adjusted figures which, as you have pointed out, are crap.