Is the Biden plan to balloon our population a good idea?

[johnwk2]

@fallenturtle

@johnwk2

My issue is specifically with regard to handing over $4.38 BILLION in Federal Reserve Notes to illegal entrants so they may acquire and consume free of charge their economic needs from our nation’s cupboard, and you indicating this is a beneficial economic “stimulus” for America’s taxpaying citizens.

I don’t know what you mean by “stimulus” but from where I stand when the force of our federal government is used to take $4.38 BILLION from the American Citizen’s Federal Treasury, and hand it over to illegal entrants so they may consume free of charge their economic need’s from our nation’s cupboard, that is a net loss to taxpaying American Citizens, and to replenish the wealth consumed by the illegal entrants, American citizens will be “stimulated” to work and sweat to replace what the illegal entrants have consumed free of charge.

This is why I think you are actually just against the idea of stimulus payments in general. For an illegal to receive a stimulus payment, they need a social security number. If they have a SSN then that means they are paying taxes… so while they are technically illegal immigrants, the stimulus effects, again assuming they aren’t sending that money back home, are akin to those caused by giving money to citizens in similar income brackets.

Did you not read and comprehend what I wrote. I don’t know what you mean by “stimulus” .

Additionally, we are specifically talking about the current flow of illegal entrants flooding into the United States and our federal government taking $4.38 BILLION from the American Citizen’s Federal Treasury, and handing it over to citizens of other countries so they may consume free of charge their economic need’s from our nation’s cupboard.

Your assertion that an illegal entrant with a SSN is paying taxes on what they earn is not only misleading, it simply isn’t true.

Many get a SSN simply to get taxpayer benefits for their offspring, while the majority of their work is “off the books” and unreported!

But see: Millions of illegal immigrants set to get $4.38 billion in Biden COVID cash

Despite Democratic claims that illegals do not have a Social Security number required to get a share of President Biden’s $1.9 trillion COVID-19 stimulus package, several federal programs provide them to 2.65 million aliens, according to data cited by Camarota.

Based on income data, likely only 2.1 million aliens and their 1.1 million U.S. born children meet the income limits in the package, said Camarota. “In total, illegal immigrants could receive an estimated $4.38 billion in stimulus checks from the new COVID relief bill – $2.85 billion directly, and another $1.53 billion on behalf of their children,” said the analysis shared with Secrets.

The article continues by pointing out because counting the population of illegals in the U.S. is difficult due to fraud and theft of Social Security numbers, “over 2 million others could also be receiving the checks. Included in that estimate are 600,000 former guestworkers and 1.8 million the Social Security Administration estimated use numbers and names that do not match.”

As I correctly pointed out, handing $4.38 BILLION to illegal entrants so they may consume that amount from our nation’s cupboard, is akin to a fire consuming $4.38 BILLION worth of American citizen’s property, which happens to be a net loss for American citizens which they will have to work a second time to replace. So, to associate the $4.38 BILLION going to illegal entrants as being a beneficial “stimulus” is bizarre to say the least.

JWK

The Biden/Harris socialist healthcare plan will tax America’s productive citizens and our retired Senior citizens to provide healthcare to the 1.5 million DACA and 3.6 million Dreamers in our country ___ LINK

[fallenturtle]

@johnwk2

Did you not read and comprehend what I wrote. I don’t know what you mean by “stimulus” .

It’s in the first paragraph of the article you posted:

Christmas is coming early to millions of illegal immigrants in the form of a COVID-19 stimulus check of up to $1,400, according to a new analysis.

I explained what a stimulus check was earlier, but I guess you ignored me as selectively do, I’ll use an 3rd party source in case that helps:

What Is a Stimulus Check?

A stimulus check is a check sent to a taxpayer by the U.S. government. Stimulus checks are intended to stimulate the economy by providing consumers with some spending money. Taxpayers receive this money because it’s intended to boost consumption and drive revenue at retailers and manufacturers, spurring the economy.

src: What Is a Stimulus Check? Definition, How It Works, and Criticism

@johnwk2

Your assertion that an illegal entrant with a SSN is paying taxes on what they earn is not only misleading, it simply isn’t true.

Many get a SSN simply to get taxpayer benefits for their offspring, while the majority of their work is “off the books” and unreported!

Fair enough… but as I said previously, most of them aren’t pay much into the system anyway because of being low income, but then if that’s your concern then you should be equally opposed to poor people getting stimulus checks as well.

But the point of the stimulus is the spur economic growth and illegals spending money in the US can still lead to an increase in jobs held by citizens who do pay taxes.

So please explain to me why their illegal status is the reason their economic activity won’t stimulate the economy but poor legal residents with similar income levels will.

[johnwk2]

@fallenturtle

@johnwk2

Did you not read and comprehend what I wrote. I don’t know what you mean by “stimulus” .

It’s in the first paragraph of the article you posted:

Christmas is coming early to millions of illegal immigrants in the form of a COVID-19 stimulus check of up to $1,400, according to a new analysis.

I explained what a stimulus check was earlier, but I guess you ignored me as selectively do, I’ll use an 3rd party source in case that helps:

Yup, you sure did, and you equated it to a $4.38 BILLION payment to the flood of illegal entrants coming in from Central America, and also indicated it would stimulate the economy, which is unadulterated poppycock as I have explained.

As to your 3rd party source definition of a Stimulus Check, it begins with “A stimulus check is a check sent to a taxpayer by the U.S. government.” Now, note the word “taxpayer” as opposed to a flood of foreigners crossing our border from Central America…

The Biden/Harris socialist healthcare plan will tax America’s productive citizens and our retired Senior citizens to provide healthcare to the 1.5 million DACA and 3.6 million Dreamers in our country ___ LINK

[Rurudyne]

@johnwk2

definition of a Stimulus Check, it begins with “A stimulus check is a check sent to a taxpayer by the U.S. government.”

Have I posted this recently?

How Government Delivers Services

Of course with pure deficit driven spending creating money out of thin digital air the above isn’t accurate since the price of the government’s largess would be increasing via inflation the price for the future flour, beans and what goes into making his measly delicious homemade pies as well government tricking him out of his current pies.

[fallenturtle]

@johnwk2

Yup, you sure did, and you equated it to a $4.38 BILLION payment to the flood of illegal entrants coming in from Central America, and also indicated it would stimulate the economy, which is unadulterated poppycock as I have explained.

Your explanation is wrong because it completely ignores the purpose of stimulating the economy. The point of a stimulus is not to refill our “cupboards”. That’s what taxes are for and is something that happens after the economy is back up to full speed. The purpose is to drive demand and create jobs.

@johnwk2

As to your 3rd party source definition of a Stimulus Check, it begins with “A stimulus check is a check sent to a taxpayer by the U.S. government.” Now, note the word “taxpayer” as opposed to a flood of foreigners crossing our border from Central America…

That doesn’t really change anything. Kinda like how it says by the U.S. Government as if all other countries can’t do stimulus checks.

So, please explain, how does spending by legal residents raise demand which in turn creates jobs to fill demand but doesn’t when its done by illegal residents?

[johnwk2]

@fallenturtle

@johnwk2

Yup, you sure did, and you equated it to a $4.38 BILLION payment to the flood of illegal entrants coming in from Central America, and also indicated it would stimulate the economy, which is unadulterated poppycock as I have explained.

Your explanation is wrong because it completely ignores the purpose of stimulating the economy.

We have already gone over your absurd assertion, that handing over $4.38 BILLION to the current flow of foreigners flooding into the United States from Central America, which allows them to consume that amount of property from our Nation’s cupboard free of charge, is a beneficial stimulus for American citizens who have to work a second time to replace that property. Your thinking is just as absurd now as when you first indicated handing over $4.38 BILLION in Federal Reserve Notes to foreigners flooding into American is a beneficial “stimulus” for America’s economy.

In any event, as I stated before in response to you absurd thinking, I think I know what afflicts you and why you are so adamant in defending the use of government force and the American Citizen’s Federal Treasury to finance the economic needs of those flooding into the United States from Central America. It appears you think with the wrong part of your anatomy. You think with your heart, and not your brain, and have no moral compunction in using government force to take the property of your neighbor to carry out your lofty, self-righteous desires, and, you have confessed as much when you stated: “From each according to their ability to pay, to each who needs help living a decent life.” ___ fallenturtle

@fallenturtle

The point of a stimulus is not to refill our “cupboards”. That’s what taxes are for and is something that happens after the economy is back up to full speed. The purpose is to drive demand and create jobs.

Are you incapable of distinguishing our Federal Treasury from our nation’s “cupboard”, a reference to the property created by America’s Citizens, businesses and investors?

Are you intentionally be obtuse?

JWK

When it comes to healthcare and helping the needy, our socialist Democrat Party Revolutionary Leadership has no moral compass whatsoever. They refuse to make the distinction between CHARITABLE GIVING and tax tyranny to support the health care needs of millions of illegal entrants and foreign aliens who have invaded America’s borders.

[Wildcats]

Thank you for bringing this up. I have just been thinking about this. In the 1980’s, the MEDIA was making a big thing about the population boom. Over population. We were nearing 5 billion people on this earth and we wouldn’t be able to sustain this growth. Now, in just a short 40 years…we have nearly DOUBLED the world population. Now, nearly 9 to 10 billion people!!! Not one article about this!! I guess that would be considered racism!! Oh, brother!

[fallenturtle]

@johnwk2

We have already gone over your absurd assertion, that handing over $4.38 BILLION to the current flow of foreigners flooding into the United States from Central America, which allows them to consume that amount of property from our Nation’s cupboard free of charge, is a beneficial stimulus for American citizens who have to work a second time to replace that property. Your thinking is just as absurd now as when you first indicated handing over $4.38 BILLION in Federal Reserve Notes to foreigners flooding into American is a beneficial “stimulus” for America’s economy.

How does spending by legal residents raise demand which in turn creates jobs to fill demand but doesn’t when its done by illegal residents?

@johnwk2

But hey, I think I know what afflicts you and why you are so adamant in defending the use of government force and the American Citizen’s Federal Treasury to finance the economic needs of those flooding into the United States from Central America. It appears you think with the wrong part of your anatomy. You think with your heart, and not your brain, and have no moral compunction in using government force to take the property of your neighbor to carry out your lofty, self-righteous desires, and, you have confessed as much when you stated “From each according to their ability to pay, to each who needs help living a decent life.” - fallenturtle

I’m thinking with my brain. My heart doesn’t think, it only pumps blood. Morals are relative. There’s nothing illogical about progressive taxation and social welfare programs… which just disagree on if they are morally just.

@johnwk2

Are you incapable of distinguishing our Federal Treasury from our nation’s “cupboard”, a reference to the property created by America’s Citizens, businesses and investors?

Actually I thought you were talking about our Federal Treasury when you said cupboard. Makes all those times you accused me of obfuscation kind of ironic.

It also makes your statements even more nonsensical.

How does this “property” manifest? If you’re talking about goods and services for sale, then its good that its being bought as thats the point of the stimulus. If its money paid into the government via taxes, then your issue should also include low income residents and not just illegal aliens. If its personal property owned by citizens, then it moot because illegals are taking that.

[johnwk2]

@fallenturtle

@johnwk2

We have already gone over your absurd assertion, that handing over $4.38 BILLION to the current flow of foreigners flooding into the United States from Central America, which allows them to consume that amount of property from our Nation’s cupboard free of charge, is a beneficial stimulus for American citizens who have to work a second time to replace that property. Your thinking is just as absurd now as when you first indicated handing over $4.38 BILLION in Federal Reserve Notes to foreigners flooding into American is a beneficial “stimulus” for America’s economy.

How does spending by legal residents raise demand which in turn creates jobs to fill demand but doesn’t when its done by illegal residents?

We are talking about your assertion that handing over $4.38 BILLION to the current flow of foreigners flooding into the United States from Central America, which allows them to consume that amount of property from our Nation’s cupboard free of charge, is a beneficial stimulus for American citizens.

It’s as much as a beneficial stimulus as would be a fire consuming $4.38 BILLION in property loses.

JWK

[fallenturtle]

@johnwk2

@fallenturtle

@johnwk2

We have already gone over your absurd assertion, that handing over $4.38 BILLION to the current flow of foreigners flooding into the United States from Central America, which allows them to consume that amount of property from our Nation’s cupboard free of charge, is a beneficial stimulus for American citizens who have to work a second time to replace that property. Your thinking is just as absurd now as when you first indicated handing over $4.38 BILLION in Federal Reserve Notes to foreigners flooding into American is a beneficial “stimulus” for America’s economy.

How does spending by legal residents raise demand which in turn creates jobs to fill demand but doesn’t when its done by illegal residents?

We are talking about your assertion that handing over $4.38 BILLION to the current flow of foreigners flooding into the United States from Central America, which allows them to consume that amount of property from our Nation’s cupboard free of charge, is a beneficial stimulus for American citizens.

It’s as much as a beneficial stimulus as would be a fire consuming $4.38 BILLION in property loses.

JWK

This is going no where… just fess up and say either you can’t or you refuse to answer my questions.

For example: How does spending by legal residents raise demand which in turn creates jobs to fill demand but doesn’t when its done by illegal residents?

[johnwk2]

@fallenturtle

@johnwk2

@fallenturtle

@johnwk2

We have already gone over your absurd assertion, that handing over $4.38 BILLION to the current flow of foreigners flooding into the United States from Central America, which allows them to consume that amount of property from our Nation’s cupboard free of charge, is a beneficial stimulus for American citizens who have to work a second time to replace that property. Your thinking is just as absurd now as when you first indicated handing over $4.38 BILLION in Federal Reserve Notes to foreigners flooding into American is a beneficial “stimulus” for America’s economy.

How does spending by legal residents raise demand which in turn creates jobs to fill demand but doesn’t when its done by illegal residents?

We are talking about your assertion that handing over $4.38 BILLION to the current flow of foreigners flooding into the United States from Central America, which allows them to consume that amount of property from our Nation’s cupboard free of charge, is a beneficial stimulus for American citizens.

It’s as much as a beneficial stimulus as would be a fire consuming $4.38 BILLION in property loses.

JWK

This is going no where… just fess up and say either you can’t or you refuse to answer my questions.

For example: How does spending by legal residents raise demand which in turn creates jobs to fill demand but doesn’t when its done by illegal residents?

Of course this is going nowhere, and it is going nowhere because you are being obtuse and ignoring my answers.

We are discussing whether or not something is beneficial to American citizens. A fire which burns down a building creates jobs to replace that building, but, are those types of jobs ___ rebuilding what already has been built ___ adding new wealth to America’s cupboard or its inventory which American Citizens will enjoy?

The fact is, under such circumstances time and resources, which otherwise could have been used to create new material wealth for American citizens to enjoy, are used to replace that which has already been created and consumed by a flood of foreigners who have invaded our borders, and to such a degree is a net loss.

Allowing the current flow of foreigners from Central America to consume free of charge $4.38 BILLION from America’s inventory, is draining wealth created by American citizens and making it unavailable to them to enjoy. Why is this so difficult for you to understand?

JWK

Joe Biden and Kamala Harris want elderly American citizens, who paid into Medicare all their lives, to surrender and share their Medicare Trust fund with millions of illegal entrants who have invaded America’s borders. LINK

[fallenturtle]

@johnwk2

Of course this is going nowhere, and it is going nowhere because you are being obtuse and ignoring my answers.

We are discussing whether or not something is beneficial to American citizens. A fire which burns down a building creates jobs to replace that building, but, are those types of jobs ___ rebuilding what already has been built ___ adding new wealth to America’s cupboard or its inventory which American Citizens will enjoy?

The fact is, under such circumstances time and resources, which otherwise could have been used to create new material wealth for American citizens to enjoy, are used to replace that which has already been created and consumed by a flood of foreigners who have invaded our borders, and to such a degree is a net loss.

Allowing the current flow of foreigners from Central America to consume free of charge $4.38 BILLION from America’s inventory, is draining wealth created by American citizens and making it unavailable to them to enjoy. Why is this so difficult for you to understand?

It seems you fundamentally don’t understand the point of stimulus but perhaps you can show me my error. Let’s go over this one more time and you tell me where I’m wrong:

If nobody has money, or barely any money, then can’t buy many goods and services. This lack of demand means less jobs.

When lower and middle class people have money, they tend to spend it on goods and services.

Increased demand for goods and services means more jobs need to be created to create and sell those goods and provide those services.

More jobs means more people with money to spend on goods and services.

Increased demand for goods and services means more jobs need to be created to create and sell those goods and provide those services.

As this cycle kicks into full gear tax dollars will start coming in and overtime refill the coffers that were drained to fund the stimulus.

[TheRedComet]

@fallenturtle

@johnwk2

@fallenturtle

@johnwk2

We have already gone over your absurd assertion, that handing over $4.38 BILLION to the current flow of foreigners flooding into the United States from Central America, which allows them to consume that amount of property from our Nation’s cupboard free of charge, is a beneficial stimulus for American citizens who have to work a second time to replace that property. Your thinking is just as absurd now as when you first indicated handing over $4.38 BILLION in Federal Reserve Notes to foreigners flooding into American is a beneficial “stimulus” for America’s economy.

How does spending by legal residents raise demand which in turn creates jobs to fill demand but doesn’t when its done by illegal residents?

We are talking about your assertion that handing over $4.38 BILLION to the current flow of foreigners flooding into the United States from Central America, which allows them to consume that amount of property from our Nation’s cupboard free of charge, is a beneficial stimulus for American citizens.

It’s as much as a beneficial stimulus as would be a fire consuming $4.38 BILLION in property loses.

JWK

This is going no where… just fess up and say either you can’t or you refuse to answer my questions.

For example: How does spending by legal residents raise demand which in turn creates jobs to fill demand but doesn’t when its done by illegal residents?

The economic results are immaterial.

Tax payer funded stimulus should go to citizens and no one else. I could compromise on legal resident aliens in good standing.

But illegals?

If we can cut them checks and know where they are why aren’t they being deported?

[TheRedComet]

Yes yes yes that is all true.

It’s also true that they are illegals and should be deported. Not given checks by the federal government.

[fallenturtle]

@TheRedComet

Yes yes yes that is all true.

It’s also true that they are illegals and should be deported. Not given checks by the federal government.

I’d be content if John admitted that… its a completely reasonable opinion.

[johnwk2]

@fallenturtle

@johnwk2

Of course this is going nowhere, and it is going nowhere because you are being obtuse and ignoring my answers.

We are discussing whether or not something is beneficial to American citizens. A fire which burns down a building creates jobs to replace that building, but, are those types of jobs ___ rebuilding what already has been built ___ adding new wealth to America’s cupboard or its inventory which American Citizens will enjoy?

The fact is, under such circumstances time and resources, which otherwise could have been used to create new material wealth for American citizens to enjoy, are used to replace that which has already been created and consumed by a flood of foreigners who have invaded our borders, and to such a degree is a net loss.

Allowing the current flow of foreigners from Central America to consume free of charge $4.38 BILLION from America’s inventory, is draining wealth created by American citizens and making it unavailable to them to enjoy. Why is this so difficult for you to understand?

It seems you fundamentally don’t understand the point of stimulus . . .

We are here talking about something very specific, which you assert is beneficial to American taxpaying citizens. We are talking about handing over $4.38 BILLION to the current flow of foreigners flooding into the United States from Central America, which allows them to consume that amount of property from our Nation’s inventory free of charge, and you asserting this is beneficial to American Taxpaying Citizens.

Simply explain how the above is beneficial to American taxpaying citizens.

JWK

The Biden/Harris socialist healthcare plan will tax America’s productive citizens and our retired Senior citizens to provide healthcare to the 1.5 million DACA and 3.6 million Dreamers in our country ___ LINK

[fallenturtle]

@johnwk2

We are here talking about something very specific, which you assert is beneficial to American taxpaying citizens. We are talking about handing over $4.38 BILLION to the current flow of foreigners flooding into the United States from Central America, which allows them to consume that amount of property from our Nation’s inventory free of charge, and you asserting this is beneficial to American Taxpaying Citizens.

Simply explain how the above is beneficial to American taxpaying citizens.

I already explained it above by explaining how stimulus worked.

[johnwk2]

@fallenturtle

@johnwk2

We are here talking about something very specific, which you assert is beneficial to American taxpaying citizens. We are talking about handing over $4.38 BILLION to the current flow of foreigners flooding into the United States from Central America, which allows them to consume that amount of property from our Nation’s inventory free of charge, and you asserting this is beneficial to American Taxpaying Citizens.

Simply explain how the above is beneficial to American taxpaying citizens.

I already explained it above by explaining how stimulus worked.

No. You did not explain any thing with relation to handing over $4.38 BILLION to the current flow of foreigners flooding into the United States from Central America, which allows them to consume that amount of property from our Nation’s inventory free of charge, and how that is beneficial to American taxpaying citizens.

On the other hand, I have explained how handing over $4.38 BILLION to the current flow of foreigners flooding into the United States from Central America, which allows them to consume that amount of property from our Nation’s inventory free of charge, is not beneficial to American taxpaying citizens. I wrote:

The fact is, under such circumstances time and resources, which otherwise could have been used to create new material wealth for American citizens to enjoy, are used to replace that which has already been created and consumed by a flood of foreigners who have invaded our borders, and to such a degree is a net loss.

Allowing the current flow of foreigners from Central America to consume free of charge $4.38 BILLION from America’s inventory, is draining wealth created by American citizens and making it unavailable to them to enjoy. Why is this so difficult for you to understand?

JWK

[fallenturtle]

@johnwk2

@fallenturtle

@johnwk2

We are here talking about something very specific, which you assert is beneficial to American taxpaying citizens. We are talking about handing over $4.38 BILLION to the current flow of foreigners flooding into the United States from Central America, which allows them to consume that amount of property from our Nation’s inventory free of charge, and you asserting this is beneficial to American Taxpaying Citizens.

Simply explain how the above is beneficial to American taxpaying citizens.

I already explained it above by explaining how stimulus worked.

No. You did not explain any thing with relation to handing over $4.38 BILLION to the current flow of foreigners flooding into the United States from Central America, which allows them to consume that amount of property from our Nation’s inventory free of charge, and how that is beneficial to American taxpaying citizens.

On the other hand, I have explained how handing over $4.38 BILLION to the current flow of foreigners flooding into the United States from Central America, which allows them to consume that amount of property from our Nation’s inventory free of charge, is not beneficial to American taxpaying citizens. I wrote:

The fact is, under such circumstances time and resources, which otherwise could have been used to create new material wealth for American citizens to enjoy, are used to replace that which has already been created and consumed by a flood of foreigners who have invaded our borders, and to such a degree is a net loss.

Allowing the current flow of foreigners from Central America to consume free of charge $4.38 BILLION from America’s inventory, is draining wealth created by American citizens and making it unavailable to them to enjoy. Why is this so difficult for you to understand?

JWK

It’s not making it unavailable to them… its getting injected back into the system.

If Spacely Space Sprockets needs to hire more citizens to create more space sprockets to keep the store shelves stocked because more people are buying space sprockets then the citizenship status of the people buying those space sprockets doesn’t really matter.

Look, I get it… you don’t want illegal immigrants getting stimulus checks, but you can just say that… you don’t have to ignore how stimulus functions to do so.

[johnwk2]

@fallenturtle

@johnwk2

@fallenturtle

@johnwk2

We are here talking about something very specific, which you assert is beneficial to American taxpaying citizens. We are talking about handing over $4.38 BILLION to the current flow of foreigners flooding into the United States from Central America, which allows them to consume that amount of property from our Nation’s inventory free of charge, and you asserting this is beneficial to American Taxpaying Citizens.

Simply explain how the above is beneficial to American taxpaying citizens.

I already explained it above by explaining how stimulus worked.

No. You did not explain any thing with relation to handing over $4.38 BILLION to the current flow of foreigners flooding into the United States from Central America, which allows them to consume that amount of property from our Nation’s inventory free of charge, and how that is beneficial to American taxpaying citizens.

On the other hand, I have explained how handing over $4.38 BILLION to the current flow of foreigners flooding into the United States from Central America, which allows them to consume that amount of property from our Nation’s inventory free of charge, is not beneficial to American taxpaying citizens. I wrote:

The fact is, under such circumstances time and resources, which otherwise could have been used to create new material wealth for American citizens to enjoy, are used to replace that which has already been created and consumed by a flood of foreigners who have invaded our borders, and to such a degree is a net loss.

Allowing the current flow of foreigners from Central America to consume free of charge $4.38 BILLION from America’s inventory, is draining wealth created by American citizens and making it unavailable to them to enjoy. Why is this so difficult for you to understand?

JWK

It’s not making it unavailable to them… its getting injected back into the system.

“its getting injected back into the system”?

The “inventory” consumed by the foreigners who have swarmed into our country from Central America is not being “injected back into the system”. What is “injected” into the system is $4.38 BILLION in Federal Reserve Notes increasing our nation’s M1 money supply.

JWK