How NATO went from championing free speech to destroying it

Sure nothing to do with the fact that republicans are more disparaging about their own country, government and citizens of a different political persuasion.

Its a joy to live in a country so small noone cares. Don’t have to deal with the rest of the worlds bs.

This is true.

Another of the dumbest women in America. :rofl:

She’s not happy she was left out.

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Good point! :grinning:

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You have that backwards. The left is the one who constantly talks ■■■■ about this country.

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It’s a double edged sword. Those allies can drag you into wars in some cases. Like how Austria Hungary and Russia drug Germany and France into the July crisis that became World War I.

Overall I support NATO and what it stands for. But I’ll admit that we did our allies a disservice by allowing them to become so dependent on us.

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The Royal Navy and French Navy aren’t terrible by any means. A lot smaller than the US Navy but they do operate with us on naval patrols.

As for the overall NATO Air Force, it’s high technology and low numbers. Because the Europeans never wanted to spend the soft costs of maintaining a US sized Air Force.

If you’re British you’re going down the same road we are friend. I’ll see you in the collapse.

Nato is a military alliance and all members contribute to varying degrees.
Yes the US and Germany are the highest to do so but the money is spent on sustaining Nato as an entity. Headquarters, staff, research & development, equipment etc.
This does not go to any member states to fund their economy. In fact they all pay something though it may fall short of 2%.
Wasn’t it formed against Russian aggression and here we are.
What to do?

No Irish and i think I can say with a little knowledge on the subject to save you the bother. A civil war over religion or politics isn’t worth the trouble.
Better to kiss and make up.
The US has no outside enemies it couldn’t crush the only way it can be weakened is from within.

I think the issue that the Europeans couldn’t fight a huge war without us in the picture assisting. What’s my issue.

I prefer our relationship with South Korea. South Korea can fight a huge conventional war on their own. We are there as essentially backup and we provide the nuclear umbrella if China ever decided to go completely stupid in a potential war with South Korea. But conventionally, they hold their own. Hell they do more than hold their own. They have more artillery pieces than we do. And their Marine Corps by itself matches the US Army in artillery.

And yes NATO was primarily formed to act as a counterpoint to the massive Soviet forces that were occupying Eastern Europe during the Cold War. We were afraid that if WWIII broke out in the early 1950s that we would not be able to transfer units and their equipment from the United States to Europe fast enough to stave off defeat. So NATO was formed mainly to unify the Western European command structure, unify logistics and supplies, so that Americans could be transferred to Europe without equipment and just use what the British and French had on hand. Those smaller militaries would also integrate directly into US command. A formalized version of what we basically had when we fought Nazi Germany without the logistics headaches that war saw.

One funny thing about WWII is that the US and Britain did not share submachine ammo. We used .45 ACP and the Brits used 9mm Parabellum. But what’s interesting was that the British and Germans, despite fighting each other, shared the same ammo for sub machine guns. And that’s just a small example of the cluster ■■■■ we had going on in WWII.

Why did we go through all that, spend all that money to form an alliance against Soviet aggression only to back out now that Putin is probably the most dangerous threat to a lot of countries, who knows he’s a lunatic.

Well for a few reasons.

  1. Russia isn’t the Soviet Union. The war in Ukraine has proved that. Britain, France, and Germany together could beat them quite easily. In the Cold War the USSR had the capabilities to steamroll Europe, even with the United States in the picture in most scenarios. Russia doesn’t have that anymore.

  2. After the Cold War ended, the Europeans kind of screwed us. They greatly decreased their military spending and dramatically increased their social and welfare spending. That’s why so many Americans are kind of angry about how NATO has worked since 1991. When it was founded, it was supposed to be a more equal organization. And throughout the Cold War it was mostly a more fair organization. Americans made up just a slight majority of the troop numbers. Germans actually made up the single largest contingent. Everyone would share equally in the suffering during a war. That wasn’t the case after the USSR fell. It became a mostly American organization due to the deficient state the Euros allowed their militaries to fall into.

  3. Putin actually isn’t a lunatic. He’s been playing this as a Bismarckian. He made bad calculations about his own military (disregarding Sun Tzu’s most important lesson about warfare, knowing your own capabilities) and the Russians have been embarrassing themselves in Ukraine. But he is still playing the game according to Bismarckian rules. He’s just not playing by the West’s rules.

It doesn’t matter whether he turns out to be a military genius or dies in a bunker of poisoning. He ain’t selling nothing we want to buy.
Russia is mostly a wasteland the wealth is divided among whoever is running things, dissenters die, people sent to war.
We have a better way of life. Its that simple.
No one looks at Russia and says looks fun, wouldn’t it be great to live like that.
They only rule by force.

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No, to fight the Nazis after they bombed Pearl Harbor.

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Well defend against him.

Technically, beyond his nuclear weapons, he’s not really a threat to us here in North America.

So in the space of a few generations you go from all that to ah screw it let communism and murderous dictators go right on ahead. Help yourselves, what do we care.
Its all yours, whatever you want.