Government shutdown

[RTchoke]

Why bother doing anything at that age right?

[FreeAndClear]

I think may be it’s time to stop using 20 year old examples to argue against voter id. I think may be it’s not 2007 or even 2012 technology wise anymore.

When that example was used by Aaron Sorkin in a tv show it made sense.

It doesn’t today

[Steel-W0LF]

@Sknyluv

@Steel-W0LF

Yeah I want to see these mythical people that don’t have jobs, or bank accounts, doesn’t have an apartment, can’t drive, doesn’t smoke, doesn’t buy alcohol, doesn’t get any government assistance, isn’t on food stamps, isn’t on disability, never cashes checks, and doesn’t travel anywhere.

You’ve just described an 18 year old who doesn’t drive and lives at home.

Then the parents are bigger failures than the teen.

[bigtwnvin]

@Sknyluv

I’m sure that’s a case for some people. But there are also people in nursing homes, people with disabilities, people who live in rural areas, etc.

Do people in nursing homes not have any form of ID? How do those facilities know who they are??
“People in rural areas”? You’re kidding right?
We agree on 2 & 3 that’s good. Except there are well documented cases of illegals voting.

[Samm]

@Sknyluv

Whether or not you or I personally know someone who doesn’t have an ID and doesn’t know how to get one, doesn’t mean those people don’t exist.

If you know such people, why haven’t you helped them get one?

[Samm]

@Sknyluv

@Samm

If so, how do those people do any of the other things that require them to have an ID?

They just don’t do them, or they accomplish them through other ways. It certainly would be easier to do things with ID.

In my post, I acknowledged that people not having an ID isn’t a rampant problem and that most people do have ID. And if they don’t, most people can get that ID without issue. But we still have to recognize that not everyone does have approved ID and some people do have barriers obtaining the ID.

None of that rationalization justifies not requiring a government ID to vote. Voting is a right, but without safeguards to ensure the one man one vote principle and to secure the process from even the appearance of fraud, election officials must be able to identify who is actually casting that vote. It is beyond comprehension that anyone believes otherwise unless they have an agenda to scam elections.

[Samm]

@Sknyluv

@Samm

Do they vote?

Doesn’t matter.

Then what are you complaining about?

[Sknyluv]

@Samm

If you know such people, why haven’t you helped them get one?

What?

[Samm]

@Sknyluv

@bigtwnvin

People who don’t have an acceptable ID are IMO:

1. Too ■■■■■■■ lazy to get one.

I’m sure that’s a case for some people. But there are also people in nursing homes, people with disabilities, people who live in rural areas, etc.

Any infirm or elderly care resident has the human resources at their bidding to help them get an ID if they are incapable of getting one themselves. And people in rural areas routinely obtain government issued IDs. There simply is no valid excuse for exposing the voting process to potential fraud by not ensuring that the person voting and their cast ballot is legitimate. This transference of the “if it saves just one life” principle to voting process is pathetically absurd.

[Sknyluv]

@Samm

None of that rationalization justifies not requiring a government ID to vote.

Someone not being able to vote because they don’t have the accepted form of ID is justification enough to be skeptical of voter ID laws.

@Samm

Voting is a right, but without safeguards to ensure the one man one vote principle and to secure the process from even the appearance of fraud, election officials must be able to identify who is actually casting that vote. It is beyond comprehension that anyone believes otherwise unless they have an agenda to scam elections.

There are already a lot of safeguards to ensure voting is safe in this country. And they work really well. Voter ID has the potential to solve a very small problem and create an even larger one.

[Samm]

@Sknyluv

@Guvnah

Your posts betray you.

Fair enough. Which posts am I arguing against it? I think that I’m more skeptical that it can be implemented in a way that doesn’t disenfranchise voters.

Your entire argument has been of how difficult it is for some people to get IDs and how ID requirements for other things is not the same (even though those IDs would mostly qualify for voting too.) What else did you expect people to think your position is?

[Sknyluv]

@Samm

Any infirm or elderly care resident has the human resources at their bidding to help them get an ID if they are incapable of getting one themselves.

An assumption.

@Samm

And people in rural areas routinely obtain government issued IDs.

Of course they do. But being farther from somewhere that provides the needed ID is a legitimate barrier.

@Samm

There simply is no valid excuse for exposing the voting process to potential fraud by not ensuring that the person voting and their cast ballot is legitimate.

You can’t prevent all fraud. And in person fraud rarely yo never happens. There are already plenty of safeguards in place to prevent fraud. The potential for in person voter fraud is a Trojan horse used to hide the true purpose of keeping people from voting.

@Samm

This transference of the “if it saves just one life” principle to voting process is pathetically absurd.

“If it prevents one fraudulent vote.”

[Samm]

@Sknyluv

@Camp

What does bureaucratic complexity mean.

The difficulties of dealing with a complex and confusing bureaucracy. Ever been to the DMV?

There is nothing complex or confusing about the DMV ID process. If you are confused by that process, you probably shouldn’t be voting.

[Samm]

@tnt

@bigtwnvin

People who don’t have an acceptable ID are IMO:

1. Too ■■■■■■■ lazy to get one.

Imagine an 85 yo person living alone, who no longer can drive and is cared for by their children.

When their license expires, why would they bother getting it renewed?

You do not need to be a driver to get an ID from the DMV. Totally blind people get IDs from the DMV.

[Samm]

@Sknyluv

@Samm

If you know such people, why haven’t you helped them get one?

What?

You heard me.

[Samm]

@Sknyluv

@Samm

None of that rationalization justifies not requiring a government ID to vote.

Someone not being able to vote because they don’t have the accepted form of ID is justification enough to be skeptical of voter ID laws.

There would be plenty of time to get an ID if you don’t have one now. If you’re too lazy or indifferent or preoccupied to get an ID, you’re probably too lazy, or indifferent, or preoccupied to vote. (What is the voter turnout percentage for a typical election in your State?)

@Sknyluv

@Samm

Voting is a right, but without safeguards to ensure the one man one vote principle and to secure the process from even the appearance of fraud, election officials must be able to identify who is actually casting that vote. It is beyond comprehension that anyone believes otherwise unless they have an agenda to scam elections.

There are already a lot of safeguards to ensure voting is safe in this country. And they work really well. Voter ID has the potential to solve a very small problem and create an even larger one.

I agree, there are a lot of safeguards. But requiring a government pictures ID to verify that you are the person the poll workers check off on the voter registration list is indeed you closes a potential fraud hole. If standardizing that requirement create a problem (and I don’t think it would) then make changes to the ID issuing process to fix it. That way both processes would be better.

[Samm]

@Sknyluv

@Samm

Any infirm or elderly care resident has the human resources at their bidding to help them get an ID if they are incapable of getting one themselves.

An assumption.

@Samm

And people in rural areas routinely obtain government issued IDs.

Of course they do. But being farther from somewhere that provides the needed ID is a legitimate barrier.

@Samm

There simply is no valid excuse for exposing the voting process to potential fraud by not ensuring that the person voting and their cast ballot is legitimate.

You can’t prevent all fraud. And in person fraud rarely yo never happens. There are already plenty of safeguards in place to prevent fraud. The potential for in person voter fraud is a Trojan horse used to hide the true purpose of keeping people from voting.

@Samm

This transference of the “if it saves just one life” principle to voting process is pathetically absurd.

“If it prevents one fraudulent vote.”

A valid assumption.

“Barrier” is subjective. Everything worthwhile that we do requires some effort.

You are right, we can’t prevent all fraud, but we can close the obvious gaps. Requiring an ID does that.

It will prevent more than one fraudulent vote. Mission accomplished.

[bigtwnvin]

The left has been ballot harvesting retirement facilities for decades. It’s an art form. Just ask Big Stacey and Revuum Warnock.

[Striker840]

@Sknyluv

@PAmoderate37

Yes, I was pretty sure a shutdown was going to be avoided but I no longer have that confidence. If they shut it down it will be a big mistake.

I’m still pretty confident a shutdown will be avoided. Neither side wants another shutdown.

Yes I realize this post is almost 2 weeks later but why do you say that when rhe Democrats go to play of late has been to threaten to “shut it down”?

Their actions do not mirror your words.

[Striker840]

@Nemesis

Who cares. Its all performance politics. Last shut down my life went on.

I just want it so when government shuts down, the tossers in DC do not get paid and all their benefits including health insurance is termed. They can be reactivated when government reopens.

I agree, too bad they will NEVER vote for that, same for term limits.