Exactly how do most illegal immigrants survive here economically?

[WorldWatcher]

@DougBH

@WorldWatcher

Since most illegal aliens come in via visa overstays I doubt that language is a primary barrier and they probably are educated.

Half is not most. I see “most” increasingly used. It creates the impression that 90%+ are visa overstays.

PolitiFact | MOSTLY TRUE: Visa overstays account for ‘half’ of all people in the country illegally

I said “most illegal aliens come in via visa overstays”, that doesn’t create an impression of 90% for anyone that understands that “most” means greater than 50%.

" Visa overstays have outnumbered people who enter the country illegally at the Southern border every year since 2007, according to a report by the Center for Migration Studies. The report’s authors estimate that the number of total visa overstays was 600,000 more than the total number of border crossers and that in 2014, visa overstays accounted for two-thirds of all new undocumented immigrants."

Where Does Illegal Immigration Mostly Occur? Here's What The Data Tell Us

.>>>>

[Eagle-Keeper]

@WorldWatcher

As to housing, take a 3 bedroom house, split the cost between 15 people and shared costs go way down.

Yeah I figured there would be numerous people per one household.

[Eagle-Keeper]

@WorldWatcher

You assume that all don’t speak the language. I would disagree, many probably do to an extent.

Not from my experience. The majority of the non-native born Latinos I’ve met (whether here legally or not) speak little to no English.

[DougBH]

From the NPS article you referenced:

"About 700,000 travelers to the United States overstayed their visas in fiscal 2017, the most recent year for which the Department of Homeland Security has published figures. DHS estimated that, as of Sept. 30, 2017, the end of that fiscal year, more than 600,000 of those travelers were still in the U.S.

During that same year, there were just 300,000 apprehensions along the Southern border, according to Customs and Border Protection"

They are comparing the number of people (600,000) who are still in the US from overstaying their visas to the number of people (300,000) who were apprehended at the border.
Think about what they are comparing.

Do you think there may have been border crossers who were not apprehended?

[DougBH]

@CaughtInTheMiddle

Bootstraps

Well, for jobs Americans won’t do for crappy wages.

General principle: If those jobs need to be done, flooding the job market with desperate people is going to keep those wages crappy.

[Sknyluv]

@DougBH

General principle: If those jobs need to be done, flooding the job market with desperate people is going to keep those wages crappy.

The wages will stay down regardless. That’s business.

[Tomahawk]

How do criminals “survive”? Same question.

[Cratic3947]

They commit SS fraud. They can, we can’t… Two tier justice system.

[LucyLou]

Dairy farmers here hire them. House them.

In my state they also move around picking produce at farms and orchards. Provided housing.

These types of employers don’t even hide that they rely on illegal immigrants, they don’t want to pay more.

They also work landscaping and roofing.

[Guntsu]

In the city they will rent a house on the crappy side of town and have like 10 people share rent.

[Eagle-Keeper]

@Sknyluv

None of this should be perplexing to you. Humans have figured out how to survive against great odds. This includes immigrants trying to survive in a new country. The answer is pretty obvious. They work multiple jobs and subject themselves to many levels of poverty. They make it work regardless. And you’re right, the math doesn’t add up but they survive.

Fair point. As a NJ resident trying to budget living expenses, etc., sometimes it becomes difficult to think (so to speak) outside the box you are accustomed to.

[dantes]

Indeed there are. But we catch the majority of border crossers so the actual number of illegal aliens in the country due to crossing the border is even less than that.

[Guntsu]

They will work an 8 hour shift at McDonalds and then walk across the street and do another at Wendy’s

[dantes]

Yeah, all those illegal immigrants paying social security taxes is really going to destroy the country.

[Cratic3947]

@dantes

Yeah, all those illegal immigrants paying social security taxes is really going to destroy the country.

Which laws do I get to ignore?

[CaughtInTheMiddle]

Fairly soon American business is going to automate so that those jobs are done by robots anyway. And a bunch of jobs that people do on this board.

[sikofit]

@Cratic3947

Which laws do I get to ignore?

You are allowed to illegally hire an undocumented worker without repercussion for starters.

[Guntsu]

I agree business owners should be penalized for hiring illegal labor, they are breaking the law.

They are also hurting Americans by suppressing wages and taking jobs from citizens.

[DOLOOP]

Rapin’ and murderin’ must be pretty lucrative.

[Klaxton]

@DougBH

From the NPS article you referenced:

"About 700,000 travelers to the United States overstayed their visas in fiscal 2017, the most recent year for which the Department of Homeland Security has published figures. DHS estimated that, as of Sept. 30, 2017, the end of that fiscal year, more than 600,000 of those travelers were still in the U.S.

During that same year, there were just 300,000 apprehensions along the Southern border, according to Customs and Border Protection"

They are comparing the number of people (600,000) who are still in the US from overstaying their visas to the number of people (300,000) who were apprehended at the border.
Think about what they are comparing.

Do you think there may have been border crossers who were not apprehended?

Sure Doug, but the fact remains that most of the undocumented people here came in legally and have overstayed visas.
https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2017-trump-mexico-wall/how-many-people-currently-cross/

How many people cross illegally into the U.S. from Mexico?

It’s hard to say. There were 303,916 border apprehensions in the southwest U.S. during fiscal 2017—a 26 percent drop from 2016. A large number of those apprehensions were people presenting themselves to border agents and seeking asylum.

That’s according to U.S. Border Patrol figures, and it also includes people who were caught multiple times.

It’s less clear how many successfully cross the border. Customs & Border Patrol tries to estimate the total based on surveillance footage, evidence of movement (e.g., footprints, overturned rocks, litter) and reports from local residents. In fiscal year 2015, Border Patrol claimed an 81 percent success rate in apprehending or turning back people who attempted to cross illegally.

Now I’m sure that you were absolutely as curious as I was about how many successfully cross after you pointed out the 300,000 figure was apprehensions so you already have found this but in the very, very off chance you didn’t have time to investigate that yourself I hope you notice that figure from CBP of an estimated 81% success rate.

Let’s say they are off by 6% and they only apprehend 75%, okay? That would mean approx. 100,000 made it through. So we have 600,000+ from overstayed visas and 100,000+ from illegal crossings. Hmmmm… I wonder if there is a way to tell what percentage the illegal crossings are of the whole number…

Hey, I looked it up and it turns out if you divide the 100,000 by the whole number 700,000 then you can find the percentage!!! And the is about 14.28%. So it would appear that given the info provided by all, the overstayed visas for that tie frame account for about 85% of the undocumented people here illegally.

What do you think about that Doug? Is 85% most?