Espinoza v. Montana Department of Revenue - (Supreme Court oral argument January 22, 2020)

That’s another thing. No more taxes at 65.

I didn’t “choose” for the government to take over schools.

Link to transcripts of oral arguments.

Link to a summary of oral arguments today.

As the author indicates, the ruling will likely hinge on the votes of Chief Justice Roberts (who was able to make it despite the late night at the Senate :smile: ) and Associate Justice Breyer.

The money goes to further education not religion. The Blaine Amendments should be struck down for violating the 1st Amendment and equal protection clauses.

The Florida Blaine Amendment, upheld by the voters in 2012 by a 56% to 44% margin, reads as follows:

“No revenue of the state or any political subdivision or agency thereof shall ever be taken from the public treasury directly or indirectly in aid of any church, sect, or religious denomination or in aid of any sectarian institution.”

Obviously this does not violate the establishment clause and in fact acts to prevent violations of the establishment clause. Neither does it violate the free exercise clause. Neither religions nor religious based schools have any entitlement to public money and a clause banning such funding comports perfectly with the free exercise clause. There is no equal protection issue either, as all religions are denied equally.

And if you fund religious schools, where the **** does it stop? Not with the Catholic Schools. Jewish Schools. Evangelical Schools. Mainline Protestant Schools. What if the Scientologists put their hands out. Got to feed them or you do violate equal protection. What if some moron teaching young Earth creationism wants to be fed public money. Gotta give it to him.

I am not interested in feeding ANY of them with public money. The Catholic Church has billions in assets that it has been doggedly protecting through bankruptcy from judgments by victims of sexual abuse. Since it isn’t making its way to those victims, certainly the Catholic Church can endow a scholarship fund for poorer Catholics who want to send their kids to Catholic School. And many Protestant adherents are wealthy and could afford to help endow scholarship funds for Protestant Schools.

I support the Blaine Amendments and hopefully Chief Justice Roberts will vote with the liberal justices at least moot this case if not outright rule for Respondents.

If public money is used to fund private schools it is a violation of the 1st Amendment and Equal Protections clause to deny those funds being used for kids going to church schools.

It is discriminatory on it’s face to do so.

Good, now go google the violent crime statistics beginning with Montgomery and Prince George Counties MD since they were declared “sanctuary counties” by their nimrod county executives.
Then get back to us.
Pay close attention to the increase in rape particularly among minor children.

Chief Justice Roberts will vote with the liberal justices at least moot this case if not outright rule for Respondents.
Is CJ Roberts taking a break from presiding over the circus in town or perhaps catching up on his sleep?

https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/articles/2018-02-27/in-most-states-poorest-school-districts-get-less-funding

Why do we need to keep money flowing to public schools? Especially since schools in wealthier districts get more funding than those in poorer ones?

I honestly don’t care if some plaintiff’s child who is having trouble in a neighborhood public school gets a district transfer or a voucher to a private school—even a religious one.

Why does religion have to be the demon here, example I don’t want tax dollars funding it? If the child can meet the school’s standards & actually learns, more power to him or her.

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If you want to go to a private school, you can pay for it with your own private money.

If you want to go to a public school, you can pay for it.

I do.

And make me.

Not unless you live in the great state of Michigan.

Not sure what that has to do with my post that you replied to. :man_shrugging:

What about the hypocrisy of the flip side of your statement? Some people would argue for money going to PP because they do some good in the community, but would deny money for Catholic schools that do an even greater amount of good for the community.

The citizens that actually need the best schools end up with the worst. That is the inner city. Those are the very people that need the most help. To keep throwing money at a broken program is reprehensible. Schools and teachers should be graded on how well their students learn. If the students are not learning, new methods should be put in place. They wont be though because the teachers unions vote overwhelmingly democratic.

And I question the motives of one who deny one without denying the other.

Federal tax dollars aren’t spent on public education?

Here is how public school funding is determined. Poor districts tend to gain less revenue from property taxes, which, IIRC, the federal government steps in & fills that particular funding gap.

In any case if property taxes are raised, poorer districts are still going to have less money to spend per student. There are many factors that make students in poor districts perform more poorly than students in wealthier ones, so I’m not sure pumping more money into these schools is the answer.

My question is if private schools are able to get money from states from vouchers, would their curricula be forced to meet government standards? Let’s say government standards require materials that go against a set of religious beliefs—let’s say a state requires students to be taught options in sexuality and contraception when the teaching of the faith restricts sex to opposite sex in marriage—would those schools receiving vouchers still be required to teach the objected to material?

Other than that issue I‘m still not seeing why 1) religions are seen as so evil as in I don’t want my tax dollars supporting that, and 2) why a child who isn’t learning in a particular district shouldn’t get a chance in another or even in a religious school where they may learn & catch up with peers.

The amount of federal dollars that went to schools is very small compared to want the states pay. Your federal tax dollars probably paid for some bomb to be built.

If you get government money, it always comes with strings. That’s the main reason the constitution split the church and the state.

I really don’t feel like sending my hard earned tax dollars to the church of satan so they can teach children to troll Christians.