Ok. Ill concede that point.
Not in the least.
The part where you think that is true.
Hey BAC. Defend your post if you are not just a troll.
I know itâs true and so does the court. Parents have a fourteenth amendment right to educate their children as they see fit and that is what any state interference in that right must meet the compelling state interest standard.
Constitutional concerns are greatest when the State attempts to impose its will by force of law; the Stateâs power to encourage actions deemed to be in the public interest is necessarily far broader.
This distinction is implicit in two cases cited in Roe in support of the pregnant womanâs right under the Fourteenth Amendment. Meyer v. Nebraska, 262 U.S. 390 (1923), involved a Nebraska law making it criminal to teach foreign languages to children who had not passed the eighth grade. Id. at 396-397. Nebraskaâs imposition of a criminal sanction on the providers of desired services makes Meyer closely analogous to Roe. In sustaining the constitutional challenge brought by a teacher convicted under the law, the Court held that the teacherâs âright thus to teach and the right of parents to engage him so to instruct their childrenâ were âwithin the liberty of the Amendment.â 262 U.S. at 400. In Pierce v. Society of Sisters, 268 U.S. 510 (1925), the Court relied on Meyer to invalidate an Oregon criminal law requiring the parent or guardian of a child to send him to a public school, thus precluding the choice of a private school. Reasoning that the Fourteenth Amendmentâs concept of liberty âexcludes any general power of the State to standardize its children by forcing them to accept instruction from public teachers only,â the Court held that the law âunreasonably interfere[d] with the liberty of parents and guardians to direct the upbringing and education of children under their control.â 268 U.S. at 534-535.
Both cases invalidated substantial restrictions on constitutionally protected liberty interests: in Meyer, the parentâs right to have his child taught a particular foreign language; in Pierce, the parentâs right to choose private, rather than public school education.
If you donât want people in your business then donât live in a society with lots of people in it.
Im gonna have to say that you are referencing a choice between public and private schools and using that as a basis to say it is none of my business what people choose to teach their kids which is nonsense. Setting a standard my business so saying it is none of my business is false.
There is another part which does not particularly involve the law where what is being taught is my business if i would not like to live in a society where outright dismissal of science is the norm, where fascists are able to squirm their way into power, and children are taken to faith healers where they will not receive effective care and insidious cults like scientology and jehovaâs witnesses (the watchtower society) are able to break up families and inflict suffering on both the faithful and those shunned by the faithful.
First off, donât put too much stake in Private School. All private schools are not created equally and many public schools actually out perform their private school counter parts. Prime example, my wifeâŚWent to a private Catholic school from elementary school to the end of Middle School and went to public school for HS. All Aâs, get to HS tried to get in the University HS program at our High school, unfortunately from a math and science perspective she was like 2 years behind everyone else. Many of us were taking Algebra 2 in 9th grade, she was barely in Algebra 1. So she was not admitted in the program, but because that was her neighborhood school she still went to the school. She didnât get into UHS until her junior year and thatâs because she had to take summer classes. UHS was a college prep program in which we had majors.
AS it relate to vouchersâŚhell I donât know about how things are around the country, but private schoolâs here in the DC area(DC, MD and Northern VA) are expensive and them damn vouchers will not make a dent into the overall costs. The school where the Obama girls attended(Sidwell Friends) the tuition there is like 45k a year. The really good schools like Holton Arms, Georgetown Prep(MD), Georgetown Visitation(DC), Bullis(MD), Episcopal(VA), St. Albans(DC), and several other religious and the so-call Day schools in the area, be prepared to pay between 40k to 65k a year. You may get some relief by going to the lower tier WCAC schools like Gonzaga (DC), Dematha (MD), St. Johns(DC), Archbishop Carroll(DC), Elizabeth Seton(MD) and Bishop McNamara(Md) or independent privates like Riverdale Baptist but not much and vouchers for many of these schools would barely put a dent in that costs too. Whatâs even more crazy, your taxes is already paying for public education so pretty much youâre doubling down by doing private. An interesting story about private schools in the state of VA and I wonder if the rest of the country, especially in the south did the same thing. In Virginia at the beginning of school integration several school systems totally shut down, which started a big surge of religious private schools opening up in the commonwealth state that targeted one demographic. the situation got so bad that black parents had to either move or send their kids to places like Washington DC to live with family members in order for them to go to school. Some of those private schools are still open to this day.
One way I think can help the situation with public schools are specialized programs(each school offering something different) and possibly open enrollment. For example, before former governor Erhlich decided to cut the school budget, High schools in my county had specialized programs such as science & Tech(Eleanor Roosevelt and Oxon Hill), the before mentioned UHS program(Suitland, Laurel, Parkdale), Aerospace Engineering(Duval HS in cooperation with Goddard Flight center which is across the street), Vocational and Technical, Bio-engineering, Business, Visual and Performing Arts, etc. Unfortunately, most of those programs no longer exists because of budget cuts. The school system has been on a downward spiral ever since.
Another way and I know some people wonât like this, but more parent involvement. Itâs easy to sit here and blame teachers, administrators and school board members. Itâs much harder for parents to actually show up at the schools, be part of the PTA/PTO, volunteer, come to events, be a voice to hold all those people accountable and be a voice to show them support. Take interests in your childâs education. Many parents donât do this and that mentality transcends race, religion, party, and bank account. Most parents treat schools as day cares and teachers as nannyâs. Usually parents are involved during the elementary years, but once those kids get in Middle school and especially High Schools, parental involvement is pretty much non-existent. For example my sonâs elementary school is one of the best in our county, but the Middle School he is zoned for is the worst in the county. Same kids from that good elementary. The main difference, parents check out. You, we, us have to GET INVOLVED, STAY INVOLVED. I guarantee more things will get done if parents are involved and breathing down the necks of administrators and board members. They hate to see parents coming, but at the end of the day theyâre being held accountable and showing the teacher(if they are doing right) that they have their back. Now imagine an entire school with over 80% parent involvement, I bet changes will be made. Now imagine that same percentage across an entire school system. The school I coach track at the parents are crazy involved to the point that the school is one of the best public schools in Maryland, also having one of those specialized programs helps with the cause too.
We like to sit on these message boards and in our partisan circles and blame government or a particular party, a great deal of it is our fault as parents for simply not being involved.
If youâre that displeased with your public schools, a good alternative, which is well below the thousands of dollars you would spend on private school, are home school bridge programs.
FTRâŚBAC your entire premise on the so-called massive education fail is rubbish.
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It was the irony of the thread more than anything
Legally speaking, itâs none of your business with the exceptions the court listed. Which again are
not to discriminate on the basis of race, religion, or ethnic background, or to âadvocate or foster unlawful behavior or teach hatred of any person or group on the basis of race, ethnicity, national origin, or religion.â
Sorry, settled law.
Oh and you can always oppose their creation, all I am saying is, if the majority of voters in your state do approve their creation, or the feds do, the courts canât over-rule them for you.
Ok, Iâll concede its not uniform, there are good public schools. President Obama should have led the way, put his kids in public school, but donât believe any leftists do that to their kids.
Sill, my basic idea isnât rubbish. Online schools where tech monitors participation would be far cheaper, and likely better. Like the algebra problem your wife had, that wouldnât happen with online schools.
And it can be tailored to everyoneâs level of achievement. Leaving no child behind.
With all due respect BAC/OP, this is an incredibly HORRIBLE, completely CRIMINAL idea. More over, I am not sure what âleftist progressive lunacyâ or âanti-christian biasâ, youâre referring to.
Let me first off by saying that both my parents were Catholic. My brother went to a Catholic school. I would have gone to a Catholic school, except that at five years old, I was diagnosed with a major speech impediment and was born with weak hands. The Catholic school did not have any treatment for my hands or my speech impediment. My public school was able to provide treatment for my speech and my hands with intense therapy. Nowadays, I only stutter 8% of the time and my hands are at normal strength. This would have never been possible without the public school system.
I mention this, because it goes at the very core reasoning behind a public school system. These public schools accept EVERYBODY. It doesnât matter your disability, color, religion, orientation, sex, gender, nationality, race or family income. You get to go to school and learn basic educational skills which can help you go to trade school, community college, or pursue higher level education.
The issue with private schools is that they get to pick and choose who gets in. And many private schools in our country do not provide great services to our children. They certainly could not provide for my needs. Many of these schools are pretty 2nd rate.
I completely agree with the posters who say, âdonât like public schools, send your kids to private schools.â Nobody is forcing your child to attend one.
I am not hear to pass judgment on anybody or make assumptions, but the tone of the original post and the replying posts, seem to suggest you want children to learn YOUR RELIGIOUS beliefs and reject what our professional science organizations have said.
Public schools are not in the business of promoting religion. They are there to teach children about basic math, science, English, and social studies. In other words, itâs suppose to be a secular education. You can take religion courses as an elective, but nothing mandatory. Better yet, get religious education by going to church, temple, mosque, and so forth. Join youth groups.
Back when I was a pinhead conservative, I use to believe in school vouchers, but now I oppose them. And there are really critical reasons why:
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Thereâs no statistic showing that private schools out perform public schools, unless youâre talking about schools yuppies attend, like the Bush, Clinton, Obama, and Trump family.
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School vouchers only provide a DISCOUNT. Poor families will either have to win the private school lottery OR attend their âcrappyâ public school OR a low-grade private school. In other words, itâs a pass the buck policy.
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Private schools pick the child, public schools accept everybody. I have yet to hear a single proposal on what should happen to children with disabilities or the leftover children when all the private schools in their area are filled up.
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Big problem with transportation. Will buses be able to pick children up and bring them back home again OR will their parents have to drive them? Will we run into any situations where a child has to go to a school over 30 minutes from his/her home in a city or suburb area? What about rural community? I grow up in the city and suburbs, but I have friends who grew up in rural areas, and they said that their bus rides were over 40 minutes long. Just imagine what would happen if these communities had vouchers. A child could potentially have to travel 2 hours back and forth to school.
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Tax dollars would be used to fund private education. If we the taxpayers are paying for education, WE should decide whether the money should go to. Private schools get to choice their own plans. I am not comfortable with giving public money to a private institution, especially if that institution does not accept everybody and has the ability to teach children hate.
Excellent stuff my friend. The right-wing on this issue is completely ridiculous and living in a fantasy world. It would be great if all children had a first class education. But thatâs not the reality. Vouchers have yet to proven to be a cure. The Michigan voucher system has become a complete disaster, and the results nationwide have been very mixed bag.
The public school system makes sense. Children attend the schools closest to their house or apartment. This way, the buses can easily pick them up and take them home. Public schools accept EVERYBODY, private schools select who they want. This means, the poor children or disabled children will struggle to find a school.
And youâre right, we cannot blame it all on bad teachers or bad administrators. Some parents are irresponsible. Some parents have to work multiple jobs, just so they can pay the rent. Some children have only one parent.
When you look around the country, you will see that teachers are being underpaid. Textbooks have not been updated for over 30 years and taped together with duck tape. There are actually some schools which are only open 4 days a week, because they cannot afford to keep them open for 5 days.
The best solution is to fix the broken schools, not continue to drain their resources.
Letâs assume everything you warn against, is correct. That argues for keeping the old system, but allowing online education compete. Allowing parents to opt out for the school of the choice, and any tax es they pay for public schools follow their children.
I predict the grossly inefficient re-education camps that many leftist schools have become, wonât be able to compete and will shrivel up and die a well deserved death.
YouâŚareâŚjust aboutâŚas dumb asâŚi have ever come across.
Corruption waste and inefficiency already drain resources. We get no bang for the buck, spend big bucks on public education and nations that spend far less, have smarter kids.
Competition is whatâs needed. Online Education, holographic teacherâŚthatâs all the way of the future.
I never said anything about supporting the status quo. But throwing the baby with the bathwater is a wrong policy. Passing the buck, is NOT a good idea. It puts minority children at risk.
I am not a fan of âonline educationâ. That seems to be a code for homeschooling. Again, parents can decide to home school their kids. But itâs not the governmentâs responsibility to fund these programs.
Another potentially good topic rendered cartoonish by a special one or two on Hannity forums.
I want to say Iâm glad I read this thread.
