Education Fix, Guaranteed to Work


#64

What we remember is largely based on repetition. What myself and “Teacher” are saying is that by sitting in a lecture on whatever topic the average person is going to forget much of what they just listened to.


#65

Okay, and much of the core content listed in the different courses mentioned is in the Chemistry textbooks I used for my high school classes. As I mentioned before the core content in all 1st year science classes is 30-50 year old knowledge.


#66

Ok. Fine. If you want to believe what they are teaching at Yale is on the same level as what you are teaching in your high school class - I will ask you one question. How do you think your average student would do grade wise if they took the class at Yale instead of your class?


#67

I never said it was on the same level. Here’s how I would describe it. All Chem students learn Stoichometry and Balancing Equations, I would assume students at Yale would be doing more difficult problems than say a Chem student at a Community college. Same content in other words but harder assessments.


#68

That is what I said. More in-depth study and much more difficult. In other words, you can not compare the two classes. In addition, material is covered at a much faster pace.

Your students would be lost after the first day of class.


#69

When the college of choice does not accept AP or CLEP a college that will do so should be considered. Cut the cost of four years college in half in other words


#70

AP students who plan on going into science, at most high schools (at least in NJ), would do fine at any college. Regarding specific classes, all college classes follow a specific curriculum. In other words there is only so much “in depth” they can go and also there is set pace determined by that curriculum. Furthermore, every teacher in America at whatever school has access to the same resources and can vary their teaching as such. In other words say a teacher at MIT includes molecular nanotechnology in parts of their lesson, well so can a teacher at any other school. Also we have been just talking about science, do you also believe that a history class at Yale, Princeton, etc., has more in depth history? Nonetheless, I don’t want to keep going back and forth on this. Here is how I look at it. There are clearly advantages to going to schools like MIT, Princeton, Yale, etc., which is why they are difficult to get in to. But they are also very expensive and one should make sure that they choose a major that is going to pay very well.


#71

That is absolutely a much better approach than spending the extra time and money that most students do.


#72

Bottom line: Six years after students start college less than half of them have graduated.

There is more student loan debt in this country than there is for all total debt that adults have on their credit cards.

When those who graduate finally do so many of their major fields are worthless. People change their majors on an average more than three times.

I will maintain forever that the first two years of college in this country are high school over again, and while we have the best country in the world our education system is among the worst among industrial countries. Check it out: Among industrialized countries we rank near the bottom.


#73

Interesting how those two concepts exist in the same sentence.


#74

Student test scores among industrialized countries is what i referred to.

As Bill Bennett, former Commissioner of Education, once said, "Calculators have done more to dumb down our country than anything else. I agree because calculators took away thinking.

I just retired from teaching high school and temporarily I have been subbing. When there is not a lesson for them to do I offer up this question with $20 for the person who does it first. All math must be shown to collect. “An item in a store is on sale for $9,999.99 at ten percent off of the regular price. What was the price before the 10% cut?”

So far, over a thousand looked it it. Most did not bother to try. NOT ONE KNEW HOW TO FIGURE IT OUT. I could have offered $1000 and it would not have mattered.

Solution: 9999.99 = .9 X Divide both sides of the equal sign by what is beside the X to get X by itself.

Almost too funny, but pathetic because it shows how bad our education system


#75

How can we be the best country in the world yet have the worst education in the western world?


#76

You raise a number of good points, which I will individually address. The reason why only half of students graduate from college is mainly because they should not have gone in the first place. Traditionally college was intended for the higher level academic students, but due to a number of forces with special interests to grow education over the past few decades there has been this push to entice all students to go to college.

Regarding student debt, this is largely due to the inexplicable cost of college, which has even somehow outpaced the cost of healthcare! Couple this with the moronic decisions of students not considering costs in choosing their higher education objective (there are a number of other factors as well but don’t want to be too long winded).

Regarding the majors, again the fact is that most of the students going to college should not be in a four year traditional academic program, for various reasons.

Regarding the first two years of college being a waste of time I definitely with you there. One of the things I hope will happen is that alternative higher education schools emerge that that do not require students to take classes not associated with their major. Like you said they just did this in high school! It is a complete waste of time and money.

Keep fighting the fight. Hopefully more and more Americans wake up to this and demand change. One of the things I think might be possible is to make colleges back student loans. If that were to happen I garuntee you things would change.


#77

Wrong.

These are just two articles. Google and you will find many more.

https://www.usnews.com/news/data-mine/articles/2017-11-07/federal-data-show-39-million-students-dropped-out-of-college-with-debt-in-2015-and-2016


#78
  • What is the top reason students drop out of college?
    According to a study conducted by Public Agenda, the number one reason for leaving college is money. It’s not high tuition bills, though. Many students work while going to school. They find it too difficult to balance both responsibilities. In fact, only 31% of those citing money as their reason for dropping out did so because of high tuition rates. 54% said they dropped out because they couldn’t balance work and school.

#79

Just search student test scores in Industrialized countries. USA, 90% from top of the list


#80

Great comments


#81

You didn’t answer my question. There’s something inconsistent with “best country” and “worst education.”


#82

What do you think of getting coll

The reason is that a successful economy doesn’t need all of its workers to be high level academics. Hence all of this focus on test scores is so overblown. Last time I checked only 6 % of our workforce were in STEM professions, yet there’s this false notion that all of students need to be highly proficient in math and science.


#83

It’s along the lines of what saying though. Here for example are some stats from one of the articles you sent me:

First let me point out that perspective comes from my time at an upper middle class predominantly white NJ school.

"57% of students enrolled in college are not done after six years"
Why is that? Did they actually have a plan before deciding to go to college? The fact is that many don’t because they are not strong academically. Also I assume that many in this category often change their majors because they go in with no plan.

"28% of students drop out before they even become a sophomore"
It’s hard to blame just costs on this stat. Again I would view this stat as poor planning.

"43% of students enrolled at a 2-year public school dropped out before obtaining a degree. This is often attributed to the majority of students stuck in remedial classes at the college level"
The fact is that students who are required to take remedial classes shouldn’t be going to a four year academic college. Do we really want people who couldn’t hack it at the high school level going to college? Would you personally advise someone who did poorly in high school to go to college?

Regarding costs particularly for those who are poor, I would like to know how many of them who excelled in high school fit into this category? Isn’t this your area? Aren’t there many avenues for poor students to alleviate this? Here is something I found for example: