Do We, As US Citizens, Have A Right

[SpacemanSpiff]

@WuWei

@SpacemanSpiff

@WuWei

@Optrader

The commerce clause regulates businesses between states. I don’t think it comes into play in local in most small businesses.

Montana rifles.

@Optrader

As far as the Bill of Rights, It has been demonstrated throughout history that every right it lists is limited right at the point it interferes with someone else’s right. In cases of one person’s rights vs. someone else’s rights, we leave it to the courts to decide. Sometimes they decide wrong.

How am I violating someone else’s right here?

The Montana rifles thing is an interesting case study. If any materials used in their manufacture cross state lines the Fed could use that to step in. Also, what kinds of purchase records are gonna be kept? I know the knee jerk answer is “Absolutely none!”, but that brings about another problem. Somebody from out of state is gonna offer a Montana citizen $5000 for a $2000 rifle. With no records of purchases that’s just easy money, baby. Eventually one of those guns will be found out of state and in come the Feds.

What difference does either make? How does either affect anybody other than the buyer and seller.

Why was the commerce clause included in the Constitution? To control a Montana man from selling me a rifle to take to Texas?

The whole rationale behind the Montana rifles thing is that the government can’t regulate them as long as they are manufactured IN and STAY in Montana. The second one of those guns crosses the state line, whether by sale or some knucklehead forgetting it’s in his trunk, it would then fall under federal regulations.

[WuWei]

@Snow96

@WuWei

Is the Bill of Rights not incorporated?

Please quote the section of the bill of rights allowing any business at any location.

“Allowing”? Quote the section of the Constitution that “allows” the government to stop me.

[WuWei]

@Snow96

@WuWei

Do regulatory agencies such as OSHA and EPA have nothing to say?

OSHA has regulations for businesses for safety – They only shut businesses down in extreme safety issues. Most times they just fine the companies for violations and order the problem to be fixed. EPA – I don’t think they have ever shut down a business (they may have – I’m just not aware that they have) otherwise like all other agencies can take to court and issue fines.

Well, that’s all wrong. I deal with OSHA weekly.

[WuWei]

@Snow96

@WuWei

Montana rifles.

How does Montana Rifles guarantee that their product will never cross the montana state line?

How do they have to?

[WuWei]

@mobulis

@WuWei

That’s right. Between the states. Not between me and a man who happens to live in Montana.

So your not a citizen of your state?

Where does the commerce clause mention citizen, individual or any such language? It doesn’t.

Take a break.

[SpacemanSpiff]

@WuWei

@Snow96

@WuWei

Montana rifles.

How does Montana Rifles guarantee that their product will never cross the montana state line?

How do they have to?

Like I said earlier. Unless there are strict records of sales, and very strict punishments for illegal sales, somebody WILL sell those things at a huge profit.

[mobulis]

@WuWei

@mobulis

@WuWei

That’s right. Between the states. Not between me and a man who happens to live in Montana.

So your not a citizen of your state?

Where does the commerce clause mention citizen, individual or any such language? It doesn’t.

Take a break.

Are you a citizen of your state?

[toreyj01]

@WuWei

@SpacemanSpiff

You have to get the proper licenses

Why? So I don’t have a right?

I would argue that this is the same argument folks make about immigration. Some folks immigrate legally, some sneak across the border. Conservatives say that they need to do it right and get in line with everyone else.

So let’s use this Conservative logic here. Folks who followed the rules, got business licenses and are now running tanning bed businesses did it the right way and if you want to run one out of your garage you need to do it right and get in line with everyone else.

[WuWei]

@SpacemanSpiff

@WuWei

@SpacemanSpiff

@WuWei

@Optrader

The commerce clause regulates businesses between states. I don’t think it comes into play in local in most small businesses.

Montana rifles.

@Optrader

As far as the Bill of Rights, It has been demonstrated throughout history that every right it lists is limited right at the point it interferes with someone else’s right. In cases of one person’s rights vs. someone else’s rights, we leave it to the courts to decide. Sometimes they decide wrong.

How am I violating someone else’s right here?

The Montana rifles thing is an interesting case study. If any materials used in their manufacture cross state lines the Fed could use that to step in. Also, what kinds of purchase records are gonna be kept? I know the knee jerk answer is “Absolutely none!”, but that brings about another problem. Somebody from out of state is gonna offer a Montana citizen $5000 for a $2000 rifle. With no records of purchases that’s just easy money, baby. Eventually one of those guns will be found out of state and in come the Feds.

What difference does either make? How does either affect anybody other than the buyer and seller.

Why was the commerce clause included in the Constitution? To control a Montana man from selling me a rifle to take to Texas?

The whole rationale behind the Montana rifles thing is that the government can’t regulate them as long as they are manufactured IN and STAY in Montana. The second one of those guns crosses the state line, whether by sale or some knucklehead forgetting it’s in his trunk, it would then fall under federal regulations.

I know what the government’s excuse is. If that happens, you due process the individual violator, you don’t prohibit everyone who didn’t.

Why does the rifle I bring to Texas not fall under Texas regulations?

[WuWei]

@toreyj01

@WuWei

@SpacemanSpiff

You have to get the proper licenses

Why? So I don’t have a right?

I would argue that this is the same argument folks make about immigration. Some folks immigrate legally, some sneak across the border. Conservatives say that they need to do it right and get in line with everyone else.

So let’s use this Conservative logic here. Folks who followed the rules, got business licenses and are now running tanning bed businesses did it the right way and if you want to run one out of your garage you need to do it right and get in line with everyone else.

I disagree that it is “right”. I disagree that government has the authority to determine what “right” is.

[mobulis]

@WuWei

@toreyj01

@WuWei

@SpacemanSpiff

You have to get the proper licenses

Why? So I don’t have a right?

I would argue that this is the same argument folks make about immigration. Some folks immigrate legally, some sneak across the border. Conservatives say that they need to do it right and get in line with everyone else.

So let’s use this Conservative logic here. Folks who followed the rules, got business licenses and are now running tanning bed businesses did it the right way and if you want to run one out of your garage you need to do it right and get in line with everyone else.

I disagree that it is “right”. I disagree that government has the authority to determine what “right” is.

Do people have the authority to determine what “right” is?

[WuWei]

@SpacemanSpiff

@WuWei

@Snow96

@WuWei

Montana rifles.

How does Montana Rifles guarantee that their product will never cross the montana state line?

How do they have to?

Like I said earlier. Unless there are strict records of sales, and very strict punishments for illegal sales, somebody WILL sell those things at a huge profit.

So what? Who does it hurt if I agree to pay $5k for a $2k rifle?

[SpacemanSpiff]

@WuWei

@SpacemanSpiff

@WuWei

@SpacemanSpiff

@WuWei

@Optrader

The commerce clause regulates businesses between states. I don’t think it comes into play in local in most small businesses.

Montana rifles.

@Optrader

As far as the Bill of Rights, It has been demonstrated throughout history that every right it lists is limited right at the point it interferes with someone else’s right. In cases of one person’s rights vs. someone else’s rights, we leave it to the courts to decide. Sometimes they decide wrong.

How am I violating someone else’s right here?

The Montana rifles thing is an interesting case study. If any materials used in their manufacture cross state lines the Fed could use that to step in. Also, what kinds of purchase records are gonna be kept? I know the knee jerk answer is “Absolutely none!”, but that brings about another problem. Somebody from out of state is gonna offer a Montana citizen $5000 for a $2000 rifle. With no records of purchases that’s just easy money, baby. Eventually one of those guns will be found out of state and in come the Feds.

What difference does either make? How does either affect anybody other than the buyer and seller.

Why was the commerce clause included in the Constitution? To control a Montana man from selling me a rifle to take to Texas?

The whole rationale behind the Montana rifles thing is that the government can’t regulate them as long as they are manufactured IN and STAY in Montana. The second one of those guns crosses the state line, whether by sale or some knucklehead forgetting it’s in his trunk, it would then fall under federal regulations.

I know what the government’s excuse is. If that happens, you due process the individual violator, you don’t prohibit everyone who didn’t.

Why does the rifle I bring to Texas not fall under Texas regulations?

It absolutely would. But since the gun has crossed state lines it’s under federal regs now, too.

[Snow96]

@WuWei

“Allowing”? Quote the section of the Constitution that “allows” the government to stop me.

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people.

Is the power of zoning delegated to the United States Federal Government by the Constitution?
Is the power of zoning prohibited by the states in the constitution?

Under the 10th amendment zoning is reserved to the states or the people.

As such, people elected LOCAL and STATE representatives (people and the state) and decided they had the power to enact zoning. It’s not restricted by the constitution that they can do it, and it’s not deligated to the Federal Government.

Now show me some place in the constitution that zoning violates please and thank you.

[SpacemanSpiff]

@WuWei

@SpacemanSpiff

@WuWei

@Snow96

@WuWei

Montana rifles.

How does Montana Rifles guarantee that their product will never cross the montana state line?

How do they have to?

Like I said earlier. Unless there are strict records of sales, and very strict punishments for illegal sales, somebody WILL sell those things at a huge profit.

So what? Who does it hurt if I agree to pay $5k for a $2k rifle?

Nobody, as long as you don’t leave Montana with it.

[Snow96]

@WuWei

How do they have to?

Feds regulate interstate comerece. If a prodect is going to cross state lines, then the Federal Govnernment can regulate it.

Very few things can be guaranteed not to cross state lines.

[WuWei]

@SpacemanSpiff

It absolutely would. But since the gun has crossed state lines it’s under federal regs now, too.

Why?

What regs? Why not the “regs” of the states I cross while I’m crossing them?

The 2nd Amendment is incorporated against the states. So what regs? According to the Constitution as incorporated by the SCOTUS, I can bear that rifle in any state in the union and it shall not be infringed, so what regs?

[WuWei]

The right of the people peaceably to assemble

[WuWei]

@SpacemanSpiff

@WuWei

@SpacemanSpiff

@WuWei

@Snow96

@WuWei

Montana rifles.

How does Montana Rifles guarantee that their product will never cross the montana state line?

How do they have to?

Like I said earlier. Unless there are strict records of sales, and very strict punishments for illegal sales, somebody WILL sell those things at a huge profit.

So what? Who does it hurt if I agree to pay $5k for a $2k rifle?

Nobody, as long as you don’t leave Montana with it.

Who does it hurt if I do?

[Snow96]

@WuWei

The right of the people peaceably to assemble

Huge stretch counting comerace as assembly.