Coronavirus Thread Political II

Trumps stream of consciousness makes it infinitely harder for those who are tasked with responding.

His constant shifting of postiions. One minute he is talking about a quarantine of new york then he changes his mind. He says this will all blow over in a week but now it will all be over by that beautiful easter day.

Mike Pence has impressed the heck out of me and has provided more tempered reassuring leadership over the past few weeks than Trump has done in 4 years.

South koreas population density is much greater then ours. They used private industry to jump start testing like we are doing. Only they recognized the problem earlier.

So the letter from the State of Michigan Department of Licensing and Regulatory Affairs buck stops with that regulatory office and not the Governor? Because you canā€™t have it both ways.

Please point to the part of the article where you believe the government caused the design and delivery of these portable ventilators to stall.

And you were not clear in how you were doing a comparison.

I was going off ONLY the statement you made. Car companies keep excess inventory, why can med supply cos.

Then you should have used a different analogy ā€“ because you were trying to compare something that the government WOULDNā€™T be buying the excess inventory to something that you think they would.
Be more clear next time. Donā€™t assume.

That you think that letter is a ā€œproblemā€ is your failure to understand what that letter is about. Thereā€™s no systems failure with that letterā€¦that letter is actually trying to prevent a failure, not cause one.

You also misunderstood what I meant by saying ā€œdonā€™t pass the buckā€.

Our disastrous response was a complete systems failure, from which Trump does not escape culpabilityā€¦he doesnā€™t get it all, but he gets a fair portion.

The biggest failure was to focus on what the virus was doing in isolation, and not on what the virus was doing in context of what it MEANT because of what it was doing.

Systems failure.

South Korea is literally next door to the source of the original outbreak.

South Korea doesnā€™t have a constitution or federal laws to get in the way, they also are much more Nimble bureaucracy because they are so much smaller as a country thatā€™s in both size of the government size of the population and then land mass.

Can you seriously not understand how those things changed the equation?

Even with those differences we began testing almost at exactly the same time.

Again the difference is in the scale of industrial capability, they do not have limits the CDC. They do not have the limits that are forced on our manufacturers by federal law and regulation. The paragraph once again their president does not have to wait on the Declaration of a national emergency or an act of Congress before he can get the private sector to jump in and help, even then he canā€™t force them to do so and he certainly canā€™t force them to do so overnight.

We are already starting to break the constitution, we are going to be quarantining interstate travel to slow the spread. There is a reason for regulations, but they can be suspended. Look how quick companies willing stepped in to help, had the request been made sooner our testing could have been significantly better.

Our president, cdc, nih, whkever else were slow.

The only time the buck counts is with Trump. You said the other day that the governor had nothing to do with that letter. And the letter causes a system failure by preventing treatment because of the politics of the one who suggested it may be effective.

Floated and rejected. Even though some states are checking and telling people to leave. Constitutionally they canā€™t do that.

And there is a proceedure for doing so.

Once a law was invoked and they knew if they didnā€™t put on the good face and step up, they might be foreced to. Looks better for the companies to do it than be forced to.

I should have been more clear I was refering to the states that are enforcing that quarantine. When things get serious alot of people stop looking at things constitutionally. I dont see it as a hindrance to getting private companies to help in an emergency.

No it doesnā€™t.

You only think it does because Breitbart told you to think that and you donā€™t understand regulations regarding the treatment of patients off label.

The first paragraph explains why the letter was writtenā€¦some doctors were alleged to be writing prescriptions for themselves, family members, friends and coworkers for these drugs. This was likely to lead to a shortage of available drugs not only for patients who had conditions for which they were approved, but for any off label use for COVID.

Doctors doing the above practice are potentially committing a serious ethical breach.

The rest of the latter simply restated the conditions under which medications are allowed to be prescribed off label. Informed consent, valid medical reason, and in the cases of any shortages, approved use takes priority.

The Governor of Michigan has zero authority to change these regulations.

The potential stockpiling of chloroquine/hydroxychlorquine by unethical physicians was the problem that could have led to unavailability of the drugsā€¦NOT the Governorā€™s action.

But what do I know? Iā€™ve only been in this industry for 30 years.

Some Breitbart author with an agenda of course knows WAY more about this than I do.

:roll_eyes:

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https://www.sun-sentinel.com/coronavirus/fl-ne-holland-america-coronavirus-dead-20200327-raujlp2ovbc3hlc7lu5pzteeni-story.html

Holland-Americaā€™s cruise ship Zaandam set sail from Argentina on March 7 with 305 passengers. As of today, four passengers are dead, 138 are showing coronavirus symptoms (no testing is available) and no port has been willing to let them dock.

On March 7, Robert Redfield, President Trumpā€™s appointee to head the CDC was in Broward County Florida urging people to carry on their lives normally.

On the same day, Vice President Pence was encouraging people to continue to go on cruises.

I believe that President Trumpā€™s China travel ban was a good move but it was not sufficient and that the desire to promote normal life kept the US from focusing sufficient on testing and stocking up on necessary equipment.

As the situation grows more dire on a national basis (the red states are not testing at nearly the rate of the blue states and new hotspots such as New Orleans keep emerging) we hear a rising chorus from President Trump and supporters like Chuck Norris bring us to avoid or end serious efforts to end the scourge.

We know the death rate far exceeds the flu, we know the infectious potential of the disease is high, we know we lack enough test kits, medical gear, hospital beds and medical staff to deal with the current growth in infections.

Should we see todayā€™s ā€œget back to normalā€ voices any more than those voices who were raised three weeks ago with the same message.

Are we all sailing on the Zaandam?

There is no doubt that Trumps administration had a ā– ā– ā– ā– ā– ā– ā–  horrific attitude to the outbreak.

Though I suspect any administration would have had had a similar Blaise attitude but the difference is that this happened on Trumps watch so while we can pontificate on what other politicians should have done is a moot point and we can see what Trump has done.

What we can see clearly is the contrast between Trumpā€™s handling of this outbreak and Obamaā€™s handling of the ebola crisis.

Trump has vacillated between following the advice of experts like Dr. Fauci and going with this hunches that lean towards not treating the problem as seriously. Trump has invested a great deal of time arguing with those who criticize his policies.

Obama followed the expert advice unwaveringly. He also took a great deal of criticism for his approach (including more than one hundred negative tweets from Donald Trump) but he publicly ignored the critics.

The two outbreaks may well have been different in scope and level of danger, but Obamaā€™s team contained the Ebola outbreak with absolutely minimal impact.

Makes a case for following the President heeding expert advice and leaving all the noise behind.

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We would all be dead and replaced with illegals if that freak that spied illegally on Americans was still in charge!

Ultimately, Trump has gone with the experts and CDC. I expect him to do so again as he has done in the past.
Second guessing for people who were silent (or worse like DeBlasio) early on doesnā€™t help.

Yes, it Trump overrules CDC on easing restriction and this results in a disaster, he is going to be justly pretty much through. I hope and expect this wont happen.
Now if CDC says some restrictions can be eased in some placesā€¦thatā€™s different.

Why this ship, would embark on this cruiseā€¦on March the 7thā€¦is one of the dumbest things Iā€™ve ever heard but was in part, based on the misinformation coming out of China. All those who chose to do this, must have weighed out the risks and rewards of their decisionā€¦and now must live or die with it? Surely Holland America had a back up planā€¦if everything goes wrong? Itā€™s time to implement that plan.

The information regarding this virus coming out of China early on was so wrong, I now have to question if it was intentional? Why would they do that? Did China declare war on the world?

I can ignore the rest of your tripe. I donā€™t read breitbart, and you canā€™t tell me what I think. Stop with your sanctimony garbage.

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What thereā€™s no doubt about is, China liedā€¦period. They denied it could transfer from one person to another. When you get done with your TDS rant, open your eyes and see the real evil in all of thisā€¦and it begins and ends with the Chinese government.