I know. You already explained it earlier. My post you replied to wasn’t addressing that. It was addressing the co-opting of a pagan holiday. The Christmas celebration itself isn’t a co-opting of the pagan holiday, but the date or time of year very well can be. (And it has some logical purpose in that the pagan celebration recognizes the change from shrinking daylight to growing daylight, and celebrating Jesus’ birth recognizes the coming into the world of the Light of the World.)
John’s conception coincided with passover. Nine months later would be January or so. Jesus was conceived 6 months into John’s gestation. (Or maybe 5. “Elizabeth is in her 6th month…” So that could have been any time from 5 months and one day, to 5 months and 29 days.) Essentially Jesus was born 6 months after his cousin. June, or so. Someone earlier opined July 31.
As I agreed earlier: “… the historical accuracy of the date doesn’t concern me.”
Zechariah’s ( 2nd) duty weeks was the course of abiyah. when it was over the next day was the sabbath so he could not travel more than 1/4 mile. so he did not leave for home until the day after. that’s when the angel said “hey bud your barren wife is going to concieve but it’s not what you think…” or words to that effect. six months after that date which is known Mary experiences her own visitation and hours after that visits Elizabeth. so three months later John is born and 6 months after that Christ was born. assuming a perfectly normal gestation that date is calculable to within a day.
Could have been 5 months and one day. Could have been the last day of the 6th month. The angel said that Elizabeth is in her sixth month, which means any time in the month after 5 full months of gestation.
Maybe she LEFT hours after that. (Luke doesn’t really say. It just said she hurried to the hill country of Judea.) And the distance from Nazareth to the hill country of Judea is about 90-100 miles away. It would have taken days to travel. (Side note… I’d bet she didn’t travel alone. A teenage girl traveling that route would be at mortal risk from bandits and other threats.)
None of this can be calculated within a day. But I’m with you regarding the general time of the year the birth actually occurred based on the analysis we’re doing here.
Eastern Christians celebrate the nativity, including the arrival of the magi, on December 25. The hymn for the feast explains the basis for the celebration using references to the bible:
Your birth, O Christ our God, has shed upon the world the light of knowledge (2 Cor 4:6); for through it those who worshipped the stars have learned from a star to worship You (Matthew 2:11), the Sun of Justice (Malichi 4:2), and to recognize You as the Orient from on high (Luke 1:78), glory be to You, O Lord.
Above is a list of Christian churches whose members also don’t celebrate Christmas and why.
A decades old conversation with a Baptist, he shared with me he didn’t either.
“In no part of the Bible did Jesus say to celebrate His birthday.” He continued to explain that the only commanded holiday was the communion, or body and blood of Christ, and even then certain conditions needed to be met to observe this celebration.
It doesn’t mention one of the largest denominations that doesn’t celebrate Christmas- The Churches of Christ. It’s the fifth largest denomination in the U.S. with about 2,000,000 members. That’s the church I belong to.
Most Christians celebrate getting presents. The fact that it’s Jesus ‘birthday’ is an afterthought.
I don’t think the commercialization was a dastardly plot by Dems, though. It started during the Depression in an attempt to get people to start spending money again, and has just grown more commercial ever since. These days I think stores put out Christmas decorations even before Halloween is over.
As an atheist, I celebrate the season because of “good will toward all people”. Would that that sentiment would spread throughout the rest of the year.
Does a person in kindergarten have the same education as someone in high school? They’re both students, so applying your logic, the answer is yes. Hopefully everyone matures my friend…and that includes Christians.
When I turned 40, I thought to myself, if I died today and met The Lord and he asked me whether or not, I had totally read The Bible? The truth would shame me. I began a personal quest and read it from cover to cover. Was I a Christian at 39? Yes but like all of us, hopefully…I’ll always continue to grow.
IMO…everyday is Christmas and I do nothing on December 25th, that I don’t practice each day.
Your curiosity regarding Christianity is your beginning too. The seed has been planted and hopefully, you’ll continue to grow?
The Apostles were silent about our being obligated to keep certain days. They warned us about observing days. “You observe days, and months, and seasons, and years! I am afraid I have labored over you in vain.” Galatians 4:30
Colossians 2:16 Paul said “Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath.” He did not add…"…except for the Lord’s day which is the first day of the week."
Paul allows the weak brother to respect days but not to bind his observances on others or to condemn others who not hold to his conviction. Paul said “One man esteems one day as better than another, while another man esteems all days alike. Let every one be fully convinced in his own mind. He who observes the day, observes it in honor of the Lord. He also who eats, eats in honor of the Lord, since he gives thanks to God; while he who abstains, abstains in honor of the Lord and gives thanks to God. None of us lives to himself, and none of us dies to himself. If we live, we live to the Lord, and if we die, we die to the Lord; so then, whether we live or whether we die, we are the Lord’s.” Romans 14:5
Paul does not allow either side of the day keeping controversy to pass judgment on the other. It is the whole person, not certain days or hours, who is sanctified - HOLY.
“I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me.” Galatians 2:20 This is a constant in the life of a child of God. He doesn’t leave us and then return at certain times.
Under the New Covenant of Grace, God’s people are holy. Under the Old Covenant of Law, days were holy.
I treat Christmas as a celebration of and for family. Invented by man, for man’s purposes, and only related to Christ loosely for man’s purposes. But still an enjoyable time of year.
The Catholic Church has many holy days where we are obligated to go to church to commemorate and honor that particular day. Personally, I loathe most of them because they feel only like a box that needs checked off. Go to church. Check. That is the end of it.
To be clear Christmas and Easter are also holy days of obligation. The difference? The celebration extends throughout the entire day, even season. I admire the Jewish high holy days for the same reason–the celebration continues outside of synagogue and gathers in family and friends.
Man made? Shrug. Perhaps. But only because of a need for a day/season where we embrace God and His love, and see it pour through us and over us. It is a time of renewal. Times of renewal are great blessings for all, no matter what our beliefs.
Realize that the earliest Christians did not have the New Testament. The earliest reference to the New Testament canon that exists today dates from the late fourth century. The earliest recorded celebrations of Christmas date from about same time or a little earlier.
My view is that if the fourth century Church was right about the New Testament canon, then why should it be wrong about the celebration of the birth of Christ?
The first century church did not celebrate Christmas. Jesus did not say to celebrate His birthday. The only thing He told us to memorialize Him with was the Lord’s Supper.
