Change My Mind - Abolish IRS, Establish Fair Tax

Look, I hate paying federal income taxes. It’s not that I don’t want to pay taxes, I do. However Tax time is cumbersome and it seems like there should be an easier way to collect.

I also think taking money out before I get to decide how to spend it is a little nannish. Which brings me to this

There are many other articles out there but essentially house republicans are preparing a bill to abolish federal income taxes and go to a national sales tax of 23% (or 30%, I’ve see conflicting information) on all goods sold.

The article linked above is obviously against this move…

“But there’s no way to make this sort of tax system anything other than a large boon to people with income and wealth far beyond what they need to live on, which if saved or invested would remain tax free. That’s why the Fair Tax has a perpetual fan base among consumers of right-wing talk and grassroots conservative activists. Because of Boortz’s role in promoting the scheme, it has become something of a Pet Rock for Georgia Republicans in the House, where Carter has picked up the torch originally carried by veteran conservative lawmaker John Linder.“

But even as a lib, that gets lots and lots of taxes taken out every two weeks, I have to admit I am intrigued.

I’m not necessarily seeing the downsides of doing something like this. I mean… libs don’t like the IRS anymore than cons. I do think cons are ok with paying taxes, just like libs (we just disagree on the amount and what to pay for).

I’ve been reading tweets from lib politicians and they keep saying it would be a tax cut for millions and billionaires and increase the taxes on middle and poor. However, It looks like the bill has provisions for low income to get “prebates”… which sound like UBI.

So for this thread… I’m looking for anyone to change my mind on this. Why shouldn’t we abolish the IRS and establish a national sales tax?

I do remember someone mentioning once that if desired, IRS could simply collect all the necessary paperwork f.e. W2s for each taxpayer and then bill them individually.

It would save all of us time and headaches but would decimate businesses such as TurboTax and H & R Block.

Not sure how true or doable this is, though.

National sales tax on goods sold isn’t a bad idea, but will encouraging savings…in a market base economy how is that going to fly?

Also that’s not going to abolish IRS IMO…they still need to audit business to make sure they’re collecting taxes and passing that onto the government.

Just thinking out loud here so don’t bit my head off.


Also what the laws will be selling used goods? Selling your use car, tools or furniture etc? Even thou they already collected taxes on those good when bought new.

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1/4th - 1/3rd of the sale, spent on taxes.


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Well, isn’t that clever, you already switched the threads subject about “Establish Fair Tax” and now ask . . " …shouldn’t we abolish the IRS and establish a national sales tax?"

Tell me, have you studied the text of the FairTax Act which . . .

creates an entirely new tax, a 23 percent tax on articles of consumption, and on “taxable property”;

creates two new tax collecting agencies, an “Excise Tax Bureau” and the “Sales Tax Bureau", in addition to keeping the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms alive, which will also be collecting taxes.

Imposes the new 23% “FairTax” on American citizens and businesses while Congress’ power to lay and collect taxes on “incomes” remains fully intact;

requires taxpayers to file Fair Tax returns twelve times a year;

requires ordinary working people to register with government in order to exercise a fundamental right of mankind . . . selling the property each has in their own labor;

requires ordinary people to become tax collectors for government;

requires taxpayers to keep whatever records Congress may dream up;

allows Congress to lay and collect countless “excise taxes” which members of Congress may dream up, and are calculated from profits, gains and other incomes;

and creates a new entitlement, the “Family Consumption Allowance” [a monthly government check sent to every “qualified family” in the U.S.] that would become another political partisan wedge-issue used during election time to buy votes.

Why on earth would any politician, regardless of their political party affiliation, support this rope-a-dope proposal which enlarges and strengthens the federal government’s iron taxing grip around their constituents’ necks?

And why does our popular media totally ignore the FairTax counter proposal _ the Fair Share Balanced Budget Amendment_ which would return us to our Constitution’s original tax plan, and do what the alleged Fair Tax advertises to do but doesn’t do?


When Federal Reserve Notes were made a legal tender in violation of our Constitution, and a direct un-apportioned tax was imposed upon the people without their consent, America’s free enterprise, free market system was subjugated, and the tools of oppression were made available to some very immoral and nefariously evil people.

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Buy used. :wink:


Taxed at 15% before you know it. :rofl:


Buying a home you will pay sales taxes on it…whether used or new.

And if they don’t charge taxes on used goods…demand for used goods will skyrockets.

So how do you make sure private sellers are collecting taxes?

There is no way IMO that you can abolish IRS…fools gold.

Now having said that…just like every other federal agency I would love to eliminate em all.

Sure but the proposal is to abolish the IRS and collect at point of sale instead of on April 15th.

Why wouldn’t that work?

Perhaps they could hire a few hundred thousand more agents to investigate private sales to ensure compliance. :wink:


That’s what I am trying to figure out.

Maybe the middle ground is two taxes. 10-15% on essentials (groceries, gas) and 30% on non essentials (cars , homes, movies)

I agree. We would still need an entity to collect or enforce. But it could be much much smaller than the irs is today.

They don’t do that know except for stuff like vehicles where you self disclose the amount. State collects tax no irs.

True…but not on tools/toys, guns or household furniture etc.

I always had a serious problem taxing food and fundamental bases of survival.

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Today, I don’t get in trouble if I sell a watch via private sale and not charge state sales taxes. If we don’t enforce it at the state level we probably won’t do it at the fed level.

The state does enforce sales tax on private sale of a vehicle. They fo it through the dmv.

Me too but it’s the only way a national sales tax works in lieu of income tax

True but still no different then now. Most will not self report.

An analysis of the Republican proposal by the nonpartisan Institute on Taxation and Economic Policy found that the FairTax Act “would impose a 30 percent federal sales tax on everything we buy – groceries, cars, homes, health care, school tuition – and lead to a giant tax shift from the well-off to everyone else.”

The institute’s federal policy director, Steve Wamhoff, wrote that, if enacted, the bill would also eliminate current tax credits for middle-income earners, such as the Child Tax Credit and credits for insurance premiums charged under the Affordable Care Act. SOURCE

Why would anyone in their right mind support the massive expansion of our federal government’s taxing arm which the alleged FairTax would do if adopted?


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The versions from back in the day they would not tax food stuff that is covered under ebt. And I think it was no one under 35k in income.

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