Catholics or maybe Thomists: Stubborn

I took a detour last night from my normal intellectual interests and was reading some stuff about natural law that spilled over into animal souls. The yada yada is that animals don’t have rational, immortal souls, so they therefore don’t have rights and won’t be resurrected because their souls cease to exist when they die.

I did a quick Google search about whether or not God could destroy a human’s immortal soul. The responses were stick-up-the-ass evasion. Respondents said that God wouldn’t do such a thing, that it was astonishing to entertain that God would do such an evil thing, or asked why God would do something like that. They seemed incapable of entertaining/addressing the question instead of just not wanting to answer it.

One if the immutable characteristics of God is that he can’t lie. There are Christians, Seventh Day Adventists for example, that believe in annhiliation, meaning that a lost soul is cast into Hell and is eventually consumed by the fire. The amount of time it takes to be consumed depends on the amount of sin you committed in life. So yes, from their perspective the soul is not immortal, it can be destroyed. I used to believe that but now I accept the idea that the soul literally exists for eternity in Hell, separated from God.

This is the truth that God left in his word. If he had left a different truth, how would we ever know the difference? Whether he has the power to actually destroy a soul we will never know because if he did so, after giving us a truth that he can’t lie, then he is a liar and can’t be trusted on anything…

How do you know God can’t lie?

Upon what objective basis would you ground that assertion?

The basis you did give was that God told us in his word he doesn’t lie.

Well…um…that’s pretty circular.

As humans, we lie for basically 2 reasons. First, to avoid consequences or situations we don’t want to face. Second, to bring about a consequence or situation that we do want. Can you think of another reason we lie? You can perhaps add nuance to those two reasons, but boiled down, I think it’s a correct statement.

What reason then would God have to lie? First, absolutely no one can hold him accountable or bring judgement or consequences upon him. Second, there is literally absolutely nothing he could gain by lying that he doesn’t already have.

Another thing to consider: How would you know if God was lying? The only way would be if you knew the actual truth that he was lying about. What truth could you possess that would allow you to dispute anything he says?

The most important truth God preserved in his word is regarding salvation. He loved us enough to die for us and he wants everyone in his kingdom. If he did not want that then there is nothing we could do about it, we’d all end up in Hell. Lying to us in a book for centuries seems to be a rather tame way for a sadistic God to lead us there. I believe an omnipotent sadist would not allow us any enjoyment in this life, it would be infinite torture…

How do we know there’s no one to which God can be held accountable?
How do you know he has nothing to gain from lying?

Again- you know this only because the Bible says it.

The remainder of your post explains that many times we couldn’t know if God was lying, which while true, is not evidence he doesn’t lie- just that we couldn’t know it.

I can’t prove to anyone’s 5 senses that God exists let alone a being more powerful.

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A simple answer to a difficult question. @Optrader

I appreciate the honesty and brevity.

Each person must prove or disprove this to themselves.

edited for the tag.

The you are admitting your initial response to the OP was immensely circular.

Who said anything about God lying?

Saying God can’t do something is akin to blasphemy.

He’s omnipotent, omnipresent, and omniscient, according to Christian theology.

One could say he won’t lie. But to say he can’t lie doesn’t make any sense. The creator of the universe can do whatever he wants technically.

“Can’t lie” should be read as “won’t lie”.

We are life incarnate. There is no separation from God.

I’m not life incarnate.

That’s a negative opinion you have of yourself. Condolences.

Quite the opposite. I’m a wave spreading infinitely through space.

Your body is a wave continuous with the whole of the cosmos, just like a wave on the ocean. Behind that is you, and that you exist means you’ve always existed and always will.

Not exactly. It is time that has already existed.

No such thing as time. You’ll learn one day, no worries.

The Dude abides.

It’s always a waste of time to try and explain the character of God to someone who doesn’t believe in God to begin with.

Can the Easter Bunny Lie?