Can we all agree that there is no objective criteria of who is/was a good/great president

This thread is not about rap. Stay on topic please.

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My apologies.

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Where’s LBJ on your list?

He’s a tough one because Vietnam on one hand but also passing the most famous legislation in American history, the laws that had to be passed because the Constitution wasn’t up to the challenge after a hundred years.

I mean obviously he could never be considered great because he was so unpopular with reason by the end of his first term that he just dropped out.

Kinda tough to ignore the elephant in the room, which is that if Trump had handled COVID like almost any sane leader of a major nation would have, you’d currently be carrying his ass across the finish line on your shoulders with a five to ten point lead over Biden and his historical legacy would be secured. The screwup who makes good in the most dire circumstances is a classic American story.

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  1. Racist ■■■■■■■■■■

Like the vast majority of presidents were overtly racist.

But they weren’t the actual president who did more for black people than anyone since Abraham Lincoln. Unlike some who like to claim it recently.


Partisanship is like gang-turf.

That is one reason Trump was elected and re-elected. The only Turf is the United States of America

Rating is clearly subjective and I strongly disagree with most of the standard historical rating lists.

I don’t rate any President’s as great or near great.

I rate several Presidents as successful.
Most I rate as mediocre.
A significant number I rate as failures.

I don’t rate either Trump or Obama yet. Trump is still in office and Obama has not been out of office for a sufficient period of time to truly look at his Presidency in retrospect.


Good post.

I get that and agree.

But Vietnam… that really ruins whatever legacy he could have had. That and his overt racism. But especially Vietnam

LBJ did not do one thing for the benefit of black people.


Neither of which he signed for the benefit of black people. He signed them for the benefit of the democrat party and plainly stated so.


Excellent point. There’s many things that can happen in the economy and society that’s simply out of the control of single human being.

The other side of that coin is the opportunity to shine. Bush on 9/12 for example.

Imma need a quote on that…

If my history is correct, when LBJ signed the VRA he said that there was a good chance that the Democrats would lose the support of the southern states. And he was right.

Actually, he basically ■■■■■■ the Democratic Party in the South for many years. All the racists and segregationists left the Democratic Party in the years after the CRA and VRA. Nixon actively recruited them in the Southern Strategy.

That is why the south became the base of the Republican Party by the 1980’s. The Democrats are only now really making inroads in the south, and with a completely different constituency then the one they had in the 1960’s.

I am always interested in what presidential historians say about various presidents. They study the entirety of their terms.