Biden to ban Natural Gas Stoves

[tnt]

@conan

@tnt

But gas is less energy efficient than electric.

Not for heating homes, now I use blue flame heaters. Mostly I can zone them much like your electric heaters.

In the winter electric bill would be 400 plus, that is with electric prices 15 years ago. with propane electric and gas is 220 with today’s prices.

More affordable doesn’t necessarily mean more energy efficient.

I don’t know why I just thought of this, but I walked into my utility room one day totally randomly and my ancient gas boiler somehow ignited the wiring to the control panel. ■■■■■■■ boiler was on fire! Totally random that I happened to walk in on it early in the fire. Ran upstairs and grabbed the extinguisher…

And now somehow this is reminding me, I have to replace my back up sump pump battery…

Sorry…just trying to avoid work…

[Dorsalfinsky]

@SixFoot

Nothing beats an open flame for cooking or heating. Humans have been doing that since humans first walked the Earth. It’s the oldest and truest method.

Oh great, now we’re waxing on rhapsodically about the good old days back in the Neolithic of our youth. Make Gobekli Tepe Great Again.

[FreeAndClear]

You can’t say that out loud

You are going to summon this guy

[LucyLou]

@tnt

More affordable doesn’t necessarily mean more energy efficient.

Always a slippery concept. Energy efficiency is a measure of the physics and mechanics. But determining affordability means doing calculations on the hyper local location, taking into account the prices of the energy at the site.

[SixFoot]

@Dorsalfinsky

@SixFoot

Nothing beats an open flame for cooking or heating. Humans have been doing that since humans first walked the Earth. It’s the oldest and truest method.

Oh great, now we’re waxing on rhapsodically about the good old days back in the Neolithic of our youth. Make Gobekli Tepe Great Again.

Did your man critique the tuna helper or something?

[conan]

So you’re say with new cook tops and pots and pans there is no startup heating, instant heat with no lost?

Even so you still have energy lost as it transmit through power lines. energy lost at the plant.

Now it we are talking about hydro electric…that’s most efficient energy out there.

[Dorsalfinsky]

@SixFoot

Did your man critique the tuna helper or something?

I don’t know why they call that stuff tuna helper. It does just fine by itself, huh? I like it better than tuna helper myself, don’t you, SixFoot?

[tnt]

@conan

So you’re say with new cook tops and pots and pans there is no startup heating, instant heat with no lost?

No, that’s still there with coil and glass top.

Not so much with induction. Induction heats up probably faster than gas - it’s crazy.

But jus tin terms of energy efficiency, all electric is more energy efficient at the appliance. Not cheaper or better. Just more energy efficient.

@conan

Even so you still have energy lost as it transmit through power lines. energy lost at the plant.

Yeah, that’s true. No idea how that factors into the overall picture though.

[SixFoot]

Boxed foods are for trained pets.

[Dorsalfinsky]

@SixFoot

Boxed foods are for trained pets.

Then you should enjoy it.

[SixFoot]

Sorry, I don’t share your taste for (D)og slop.

[Dorsalfinsky]

You know what, I thought The Sign and the Seal was excellent and scholarly. And thinking back it was good. But man, then he went off on the Sphinx and continental shift and ancient underwater megalithic structures off Japan. What a shame. Why can’t everyone just admit we don’t know, and just be overwhelmed while being in awe of how things came to be.

[Dorsalfinsky]

Sorry about my previous post. Now I need to get back to my seething hatred of all that is good and pure.

[Samm]

@Camp

I like LED bulbs also. While most do last very long I have also had some duds that only lasted a few years.

Ditto. But CFLs were a good idea that failed miserably. Unfortunately, I bought quite a few and so learned the hard way. I still have dozens of new-in-the-box CFLs in a cupboard in my basement that will never be used. Maybe I can sell them as collector items.

[Samm]

@tnt

@conan

Natural gas puts out little over 1000 btu’s. That’s it. Gas range uses entire BTU output heating while power plant uses the same BTU’s…then has to transmit that power over lines while having some power lost on it’s way. Then it has to heat the elements to heat up the stove, hot water and yes your heater to desired temp.

That is laws of physics.

So yeah…it is impossible.

Now if you’re talking about supply consumption prices. Yes power plant no doubt gets a better deal on cubic feet of gas. But you still have energy lost and requires more gas that gets burned.

Prove me wrong…

Not quite.

Electric cooking benefits from more efficient heat transfer to your pots and pans. Gas loses more energy to the air than electric cooking.

And induction cooking is insanely efficient in that respect.

Here is what AI has to say about it:

Electric ovens
Energy transfer: More energy is transferred to the food, with efficiency around 75–80%.

Gas ovens
Energy transfer: Less energy is transferred to the food, with efficiency around 40%.

You are only considering the efficiency at the user end of the energy source. There is more energy loss in generating and transmitting electricity than there is for gas. Furthermore, if your home is heated with gas, every BTU lost in cooking is captured within the insulated confines of your house so energy lost during cooking is offset 100% in reduced heating cost. That is also true of BTU loss with electric stoves and ovens, but invariably, a BTU from electricity is more expensive than a BTU from gas.

[Samm]

@tnt

More affordable doesn’t necessarily mean more energy efficient.

Particularly when you are not considering the total efficiency from source to consumption.

[tnt]

@Samm

You are only considering the efficiency at the user end of the energy source. There is more energy loss in generating and transmitting electricity than there is for gas.

AI:

AI Overview
Lost in transmission: how the delivery of electricity has …
In the United States, approximately 5% of electricity is lost during transmission and distribution, with most losses occurring in the distribution phase. The total energy loss between the power plant and consumers is in the range of 8-15%. These losses are due to factors like electrical resistance in power lines and transformers, which generates heat (the Joule effect).

That still means electricity is more energy efficient.

@Samm

Furthermore, if your home is heated with gas, every BTU lost in cooking is captured within the insulated confines of your house so energy lost during cooking is offset 100% in reduced heating cost.

And in the summer it means you have to run your AC all the more…

@Samm

That is also true of BTU loss with electric stoves and ovens, but invariably, a BTU from electricity is more expensive than a BTU from gas.

We weren’t discussing cost. We were discussing energy efficiency.

[tnt]

@Samm

@tnt

More affordable doesn’t necessarily mean more energy efficient.

Particularly when you are not considering the total efficiency from source to consumption.

AI Overview
Which Is More Energy Efficient for Cooking: Gas or Induction?
Electric stoves are more energy-efficient than gas stoves, though gas may be cheaper to operate depending on local energy costs. Standard electric cooktops transfer about 74% of their energy to the food, while gas cooktops are only about 40% efficient. The most energy-efficient option is an induction cooktop, which can transfer up to 90% of its energy directly to the cookware.

So even with 15% loss, electric is considerably more energy efficient.

[tnt]

@Samm

@Camp

I like LED bulbs also. While most do last very long I have also had some duds that only lasted a few years.

Ditto. But CFLs were a good idea that failed miserably. Unfortunately, I bought quite a few and so learned the hard way. I still have dozens of new-in-the-box CFLs in a cupboard in my basement that will never be used. Maybe I can sell them as collector items.

Yeah, me too…

[conan]

That’s true, specially now. Heat lost from cooking is used to keep the house warm…so less use of blue flame.