Another anti-vaxer dies

RTchoke · September 23, 2021, 3:36am

By dragging their corpses out to shame them and their families for daring to disagree with your POV and the almighty govt.

Orygun · September 23, 2021, 4:01am

By parroting dangerous information that causes needless deaths just to own the libz…

RTchoke · September 23, 2021, 4:15am

Don’t worry, Biden is going to make sure the media gets a big payoff through the infrastructure bill so the media will most certainly continue the govt message only while making sure nothing else is written even if true. Paying them under the table doesn’t make them any less a ministry of propaganda.

You can continue to report the misinformation to P-Sucki Psaki. They may have little medals for y"all by now.

Orygun · September 23, 2021, 4:20am

This is why this thread is needed.

Camp · September 23, 2021, 8:58am

Still missing the key point.

Sell the safety.

Quit calling reluctant pig headed and selfish.

They have safety concerns…address them in a respectable and engaging manner.

This thread is not how it’s done.

biggestal99 · September 23, 2021, 9:06am

If pro vax POV was taken by all. These people would be alive.

Anti vaxxers are literally killing themselves.

If your brother were in Jonestown. Wouldn’t you try and save him.

Or would you say it’s his POV. His life.

Allan

Jezcoe · September 23, 2021, 10:17am

One POV is about stopping the pandemic and people not dying.

The other POV results in the continuation of the pandemic and causes preventable deaths.

Not all POV’s are equal.

tnt · September 23, 2021, 11:21am

‘The vaccines save lives’ is not a POV. It’s a fact.

biggestal99 · September 23, 2021, 11:28am

That is correct every citizen who is eligible vaxxed there are many fewer deaths.

That’s undebateable.

Or is it. Let’s hear so counter point or will it be crickets.

Allan

biggestal99 · September 23, 2021, 1:53pm

■■■■■ he’s was younger than me.

Another tragic case.

Allan

toreyj01 · September 23, 2021, 1:55pm

Kelby:

toreyj01:

Kelby:

toreyj01:

Conservative_frk:

toreyj01:

In medicine, we often give people options for treatment. For instance, in Cardiology if you have severe blockages you can either have open heart surgery or you can have stents implanted.

If you only have a single blockage a stent is a better option, but if you have 5 or 6 perhaps bypass is better.

But it is how you PHRASE the options that determine which procedure the patient often takes. If a Cardiologist says “We can send you for bypass where they will gut you like a fish and you will need a month of rehab, or we can just fix you now with a stent and you can go home tomorrow like nothing happened” the patient will choose the stent.

Or the Surgeon can stop by and say that stents will not add years to your life, but bypass will. And you won’t have to keep coming in for touchups. One and done.

The better path is always to be straight with the patient and tell them what they need to hear. One Cardiologist I know, if the patient needed bypass, would simply go up to them at the end of the case and say “You need bypass, I will come to your room later and talk about it”. And then…leave.

Doesn’t the patient have another choice?

Of course they do, the matter at hand is what is the best choice? If it is clear, be clear and concise with the patient because they trust you. Tell them the unadulterated truth and they will be better off. Giving them choices when one option is clearly in their best interest and the other is not should be precisely phrased that way.

In other words “This choice is clearly what you should do, the other option is clearly inferior and offers a significant risk to you. I would only choose this if it were me or if it were a member of my own family”. You can even go further and say “If you choose this other option, it is so potentially harmful that I will need to find a second opinion for you, or another Physician who might be willing to do it”.

You should never compromise your oath, do no harm.

I hear this “do your own research” crap from the vaccine hesitant and anti-vaxxers. I ask, who do you trust about your physical health, your physician, right? Ask them.

I then hear them assert that their doctor says the decision is up to them, supporting their hesitancy.

I find that hard to believe. This isn’t about getting a facelift or liposuction. It can be a matter of life and death.

I think the truth is the majority of these people don’t consult with their doctors, if they even have them.

I have talked to quite a few of these kinds of patients, and after a while, you honestly get to the point where you know no amount of talking is going to persuade them. They are entrenched. It actually goes beyond the fear of death, even the fear of losing a parent or a child or a spouse. Nothing else matters other than being right, even with people dying all around them.

And if they catch it and go through hell recovering, you won’t see them change their mind about vaccination. Nothing will.

So what is the point of talking to them?

To me, a lot of these people are lost causes when it comes to trying to get them to be responsible and considerate. It just isn’t going to happen. So in a lot of ways, we need to move past them.

That means mandates. You cannot access any form of public transportation without proof of vaccination. You cannot work at any job with more than 100 employees without it, you cannot teach or work in any field of health care without it. Get them isolated to the point they cannot harm us and perhaps some of them will grudgingly accede.

The rest can get bent.

Now, I do believe if you have had a prior documented infection, you should not have to be vaccinated. They do have immunity, perhaps not as good but perhaps more long lasting, we just don’t know yet. They aren’t the problem.

So I take it from your post that you unequivocally recommend the people you see get vaccinated?

That would be correct. With no reservations.

toreyj01 · September 23, 2021, 2:05pm

We have a fairly good ECMO program at my hospital and it is no joke, this is a complicated procedure that needs advanced training and management. But the rewards are astonishing. You can literally have no cardiac function and still live with this, it replaces your entire respiratory and circulatory system for days or even weeks on end.

I am glad we went through the pain of starting the program, though, it has saved a lot of lives due to COVID.

Kelby · September 23, 2021, 2:29pm

toreyj01:

Kelby:

toreyj01:

Kelby:

toreyj01:

Conservative_frk:

toreyj01:

In medicine, we often give people options for treatment. For instance, in Cardiology if you have severe blockages you can either have open heart surgery or you can have stents implanted.

If you only have a single blockage a stent is a better option, but if you have 5 or 6 perhaps bypass is better.

But it is how you PHRASE the options that determine which procedure the patient often takes. If a Cardiologist says “We can send you for bypass where they will gut you like a fish and you will need a month of rehab, or we can just fix you now with a stent and you can go home tomorrow like nothing happened” the patient will choose the stent.

Or the Surgeon can stop by and say that stents will not add years to your life, but bypass will. And you won’t have to keep coming in for touchups. One and done.

The better path is always to be straight with the patient and tell them what they need to hear. One Cardiologist I know, if the patient needed bypass, would simply go up to them at the end of the case and say “You need bypass, I will come to your room later and talk about it”. And then…leave.

Doesn’t the patient have another choice?

Of course they do, the matter at hand is what is the best choice? If it is clear, be clear and concise with the patient because they trust you. Tell them the unadulterated truth and they will be better off. Giving them choices when one option is clearly in their best interest and the other is not should be precisely phrased that way.

In other words “This choice is clearly what you should do, the other option is clearly inferior and offers a significant risk to you. I would only choose this if it were me or if it were a member of my own family”. You can even go further and say “If you choose this other option, it is so potentially harmful that I will need to find a second opinion for you, or another Physician who might be willing to do it”.

You should never compromise your oath, do no harm.

I hear this “do your own research” crap from the vaccine hesitant and anti-vaxxers. I ask, who do you trust about your physical health, your physician, right? Ask them.

I then hear them assert that their doctor says the decision is up to them, supporting their hesitancy.

I find that hard to believe. This isn’t about getting a facelift or liposuction. It can be a matter of life and death.

I think the truth is the majority of these people don’t consult with their doctors, if they even have them.

I have talked to quite a few of these kinds of patients, and after a while, you honestly get to the point where you know no amount of talking is going to persuade them. They are entrenched. It actually goes beyond the fear of death, even the fear of losing a parent or a child or a spouse. Nothing else matters other than being right, even with people dying all around them.

And if they catch it and go through hell recovering, you won’t see them change their mind about vaccination. Nothing will.

So what is the point of talking to them?

To me, a lot of these people are lost causes when it comes to trying to get them to be responsible and considerate. It just isn’t going to happen. So in a lot of ways, we need to move past them.

That means mandates. You cannot access any form of public transportation without proof of vaccination. You cannot work at any job with more than 100 employees without it, you cannot teach or work in any field of health care without it. Get them isolated to the point they cannot harm us and perhaps some of them will grudgingly accede.

The rest can get bent.

Now, I do believe if you have had a prior documented infection, you should not have to be vaccinated. They do have immunity, perhaps not as good but perhaps more long lasting, we just don’t know yet. They aren’t the problem.

So I take it from your post that you unequivocally recommend the people you see get vaccinated?

That would be correct. With no reservations.

Thank you. I’m skeptical at best that doctors are telling their patients that the choice to take the vaccine is “up to them” and not strongly recommended medical advice.

biggestal99 · September 28, 2021, 2:13pm

The I am too healthy for a COVID vaccine story.

20 years old.

A huge tragedy for all concerned.

Allan

gooddad409 · September 28, 2021, 2:21pm

Good point but it will whoosh right over their heads. They enjoy the idea/fantasy of controlling everyone imo.

Camp · September 28, 2021, 2:32pm

It used to be that being a jerk was a signal that a person was only a fair weather ally.

A good indicator of a potential back stabber when the going gets tough.

WuWei · September 28, 2021, 2:34pm

biggestal99 · September 29, 2021, 12:31am

Get well soon Ben.

Allan

tnt · September 29, 2021, 12:36am

Beets and ivermectin…

■■■?

Hope he and his wife recover fully and quickly.

FlameHeart · September 29, 2021, 12:54am

We all knew that you and the other anti-vaxxers would celebrate his death.