Amazon cancels NYC headquarters because of political opposition

7ranz · February 16, 2019, 6:05pm

Jezcoe:

7ranz:

Jezcoe:

LucyLou:

I had been surprised that they were going to kerplunk down an entity that was going to provide thousands of jobs in such a densely populated area. What do you think the effect would have been on wages?

I am of two minds about this. I think that on the whole that Amazon would have been a net benefit… but I also know it would have been a disaster for those living in the neighborhood.

I have friends over there who own a brewery in that area… I am not sure of their opinion. Whether they thought it would a net positive or if they were worried that they would have to relocate when their commercial lease was up.

One of the guys that I know who has a distillery in Williamsburg I was hanging out with last night and he was against it… but he is a kind of a weird curmudgeon to begin with.

A net benefit, but also a disaster for those living the neighborhood?

A net benefit for the city… but I wouldn’t want it my backyard.

The rapid building of condos and rent blight is already a huge problem citywide… dropping something as huge as an Amazon HQ would pretty much destroy the fabric of any neighborhood. Especially a Neighborhood that has been on the upswing already.

As an example. The Barclay’s Center sits at the end of the my neighborhood. When they first proposed building it, they were going to drop an Arena and a bunch of highrise buildings right in the middle of a neighborhood that was revitalizing. They were trying to sell it as knocking down slums… but that wasn’t the case at all. The neighborhood fought back against that eminent domain and the project got scaled way back. Now the Arena is kind of a hub of economic activity in the area with the added benefit of keeping a lot of the “character” of the neighborhood.

For a while at least.

Since then, there has been a great displacement of some of the more traditional blue collar businesses in that area to make way for cheaply built condos and boutique businesses. Replacing middle class blue collar jobs with lower paid services for Upper Middle Class to Upper Class customers. Where there was once a light manufactury there is now a Trader Joe’s… things like that.

But that is kind of the natural churn of “progress” in my mind.

So LIC is already changing. Nothing is really going to stop it. With the Amazon HQ that would have happened at an even greater pace than it already is… and be subsidized by the taxpayer to boot.

I hope that that rambling made some sense

Your ramblings make a lot of sense. I just think it demonstrates that the Amazon deal is a net negative.

I appreciate your explanation of the history of the Barclay’s Center and it’s effects on the area around it. I didn’t know any of that.

TheDoctorIsIn · February 16, 2019, 6:05pm

I heard about that. Another bar that I have countless memories at, and another venue for that same friend’s band.

My job for a while used to a weekly bar night at a bar across the street from Hank’s, called the Brooklyn Tavern. It’s a yoga studio now.

Jezcoe · February 16, 2019, 6:08pm

I remember the Brooklyn Tavern. When I first moved here like 22 years ago I worked mostly at the Brooklyn Academy of Music. So I was in that area a lot.

A friend of mine who bartended at Hank’s posted pictures of the weird abandoned apartment above Hank’s. Apparently at night when the bartenders were closing up they would keep the jukebox going because you don’t want to hear what the place is like when it is silent.

Jezcoe · February 16, 2019, 6:13pm

7ranz:

Jezcoe:

7ranz:

Jezcoe:

LucyLou:

I had been surprised that they were going to kerplunk down an entity that was going to provide thousands of jobs in such a densely populated area. What do you think the effect would have been on wages?

I am of two minds about this. I think that on the whole that Amazon would have been a net benefit… but I also know it would have been a disaster for those living in the neighborhood.

I have friends over there who own a brewery in that area… I am not sure of their opinion. Whether they thought it would a net positive or if they were worried that they would have to relocate when their commercial lease was up.

One of the guys that I know who has a distillery in Williamsburg I was hanging out with last night and he was against it… but he is a kind of a weird curmudgeon to begin with.

A net benefit, but also a disaster for those living the neighborhood?

A net benefit for the city… but I wouldn’t want it my backyard.

The rapid building of condos and rent blight is already a huge problem citywide… dropping something as huge as an Amazon HQ would pretty much destroy the fabric of any neighborhood. Especially a Neighborhood that has been on the upswing already.

As an example. The Barclay’s Center sits at the end of the my neighborhood. When they first proposed building it, they were going to drop an Arena and a bunch of highrise buildings right in the middle of a neighborhood that was revitalizing. They were trying to sell it as knocking down slums… but that wasn’t the case at all. The neighborhood fought back against that eminent domain and the project got scaled way back. Now the Arena is kind of a hub of economic activity in the area with the added benefit of keeping a lot of the “character” of the neighborhood.

For a while at least.

Since then, there has been a great displacement of some of the more traditional blue collar businesses in that area to make way for cheaply built condos and boutique businesses. Replacing middle class blue collar jobs with lower paid services for Upper Middle Class to Upper Class customers. Where there was once a light manufactury there is now a Trader Joe’s… things like that.

But that is kind of the natural churn of “progress” in my mind.

So LIC is already changing. Nothing is really going to stop it. With the Amazon HQ that would have happened at an even greater pace than it already is… and be subsidized by the taxpayer to boot.

I hope that that rambling made some sense

Your ramblings make a lot of sense. I just think it demonstrates that the Amazon deal is a net negative.

I appreciate your explanation of the history of the Barclay’s Center and it’s effects on the area around it. I didn’t know any of that.

I think that the deal was capable of being a net positive if the thing was conducted out in the open with all the parties involved getting to put in input.

But it was the classic backroom deal that smacked of the Robert Moses era of getting ■■■■ done no matter who it hurts and that doesn’t fly anymore.

TheDoctorIsIn · February 16, 2019, 6:17pm

I just found this photo (a physical photo) a few days ago, from behind the bar:

7ranz · February 16, 2019, 6:21pm

Jezcoe:

7ranz:

Jezcoe:

7ranz:

Jezcoe:

LucyLou:

I had been surprised that they were going to kerplunk down an entity that was going to provide thousands of jobs in such a densely populated area. What do you think the effect would have been on wages?

I am of two minds about this. I think that on the whole that Amazon would have been a net benefit… but I also know it would have been a disaster for those living in the neighborhood.

I have friends over there who own a brewery in that area… I am not sure of their opinion. Whether they thought it would a net positive or if they were worried that they would have to relocate when their commercial lease was up.

One of the guys that I know who has a distillery in Williamsburg I was hanging out with last night and he was against it… but he is a kind of a weird curmudgeon to begin with.

A net benefit, but also a disaster for those living the neighborhood?

A net benefit for the city… but I wouldn’t want it my backyard.

The rapid building of condos and rent blight is already a huge problem citywide… dropping something as huge as an Amazon HQ would pretty much destroy the fabric of any neighborhood. Especially a Neighborhood that has been on the upswing already.

As an example. The Barclay’s Center sits at the end of the my neighborhood. When they first proposed building it, they were going to drop an Arena and a bunch of highrise buildings right in the middle of a neighborhood that was revitalizing. They were trying to sell it as knocking down slums… but that wasn’t the case at all. The neighborhood fought back against that eminent domain and the project got scaled way back. Now the Arena is kind of a hub of economic activity in the area with the added benefit of keeping a lot of the “character” of the neighborhood.

For a while at least.

Since then, there has been a great displacement of some of the more traditional blue collar businesses in that area to make way for cheaply built condos and boutique businesses. Replacing middle class blue collar jobs with lower paid services for Upper Middle Class to Upper Class customers. Where there was once a light manufactury there is now a Trader Joe’s… things like that.

But that is kind of the natural churn of “progress” in my mind.

So LIC is already changing. Nothing is really going to stop it. With the Amazon HQ that would have happened at an even greater pace than it already is… and be subsidized by the taxpayer to boot.

I hope that that rambling made some sense

Your ramblings make a lot of sense. I just think it demonstrates that the Amazon deal is a net negative.

I appreciate your explanation of the history of the Barclay’s Center and it’s effects on the area around it. I didn’t know any of that.

I think that the deal was capable of being a net positive if the thing was conducted out in the open with all the parties involved getting to put in input.

But it was the classic backroom deal that smacked of the Robert Moses era of getting ■■■■ done no matter who it hurts and that doesn’t fly anymore.

Oh come on, they got what a $2 billion gift from Cuomo? It was a blatant corporate snake oil scam.

Amazon bailed the moment they got any resistance to their scam.

Jezcoe · February 16, 2019, 6:24pm

7ranz:

Jezcoe:

7ranz:

Jezcoe:

7ranz:

Jezcoe:

LucyLou:

I had been surprised that they were going to kerplunk down an entity that was going to provide thousands of jobs in such a densely populated area. What do you think the effect would have been on wages?

I am of two minds about this. I think that on the whole that Amazon would have been a net benefit… but I also know it would have been a disaster for those living in the neighborhood.

I have friends over there who own a brewery in that area… I am not sure of their opinion. Whether they thought it would a net positive or if they were worried that they would have to relocate when their commercial lease was up.

One of the guys that I know who has a distillery in Williamsburg I was hanging out with last night and he was against it… but he is a kind of a weird curmudgeon to begin with.

A net benefit, but also a disaster for those living the neighborhood?

A net benefit for the city… but I wouldn’t want it my backyard.

The rapid building of condos and rent blight is already a huge problem citywide… dropping something as huge as an Amazon HQ would pretty much destroy the fabric of any neighborhood. Especially a Neighborhood that has been on the upswing already.

As an example. The Barclay’s Center sits at the end of the my neighborhood. When they first proposed building it, they were going to drop an Arena and a bunch of highrise buildings right in the middle of a neighborhood that was revitalizing. They were trying to sell it as knocking down slums… but that wasn’t the case at all. The neighborhood fought back against that eminent domain and the project got scaled way back. Now the Arena is kind of a hub of economic activity in the area with the added benefit of keeping a lot of the “character” of the neighborhood.

For a while at least.

Since then, there has been a great displacement of some of the more traditional blue collar businesses in that area to make way for cheaply built condos and boutique businesses. Replacing middle class blue collar jobs with lower paid services for Upper Middle Class to Upper Class customers. Where there was once a light manufactury there is now a Trader Joe’s… things like that.

But that is kind of the natural churn of “progress” in my mind.

So LIC is already changing. Nothing is really going to stop it. With the Amazon HQ that would have happened at an even greater pace than it already is… and be subsidized by the taxpayer to boot.

I hope that that rambling made some sense

Your ramblings make a lot of sense. I just think it demonstrates that the Amazon deal is a net negative.

I appreciate your explanation of the history of the Barclay’s Center and it’s effects on the area around it. I didn’t know any of that.

I think that the deal was capable of being a net positive if the thing was conducted out in the open with all the parties involved getting to put in input.

But it was the classic backroom deal that smacked of the Robert Moses era of getting ■■■■ done no matter who it hurts and that doesn’t fly anymore.

Oh come on, they got what a $2 billion gift from Cuomo? It was a blatant corporate snake oil scam.

Amazon bailed the moment they got any resistance to their scam.

Yep… that much we can agree on. If legitimate questions and concerns is enough to make them bail then they wouldn’t have been a good corporate partner in the city to start off with.

7ranz · February 16, 2019, 6:25pm

Jezcoe:

7ranz:

Jezcoe:

7ranz:

Jezcoe:

7ranz:

Jezcoe:

LucyLou:

I had been surprised that they were going to kerplunk down an entity that was going to provide thousands of jobs in such a densely populated area. What do you think the effect would have been on wages?

I am of two minds about this. I think that on the whole that Amazon would have been a net benefit… but I also know it would have been a disaster for those living in the neighborhood.

I have friends over there who own a brewery in that area… I am not sure of their opinion. Whether they thought it would a net positive or if they were worried that they would have to relocate when their commercial lease was up.

One of the guys that I know who has a distillery in Williamsburg I was hanging out with last night and he was against it… but he is a kind of a weird curmudgeon to begin with.

A net benefit, but also a disaster for those living the neighborhood?

A net benefit for the city… but I wouldn’t want it my backyard.

The rapid building of condos and rent blight is already a huge problem citywide… dropping something as huge as an Amazon HQ would pretty much destroy the fabric of any neighborhood. Especially a Neighborhood that has been on the upswing already.

As an example. The Barclay’s Center sits at the end of the my neighborhood. When they first proposed building it, they were going to drop an Arena and a bunch of highrise buildings right in the middle of a neighborhood that was revitalizing. They were trying to sell it as knocking down slums… but that wasn’t the case at all. The neighborhood fought back against that eminent domain and the project got scaled way back. Now the Arena is kind of a hub of economic activity in the area with the added benefit of keeping a lot of the “character” of the neighborhood.

For a while at least.

Since then, there has been a great displacement of some of the more traditional blue collar businesses in that area to make way for cheaply built condos and boutique businesses. Replacing middle class blue collar jobs with lower paid services for Upper Middle Class to Upper Class customers. Where there was once a light manufactury there is now a Trader Joe’s… things like that.

But that is kind of the natural churn of “progress” in my mind.

So LIC is already changing. Nothing is really going to stop it. With the Amazon HQ that would have happened at an even greater pace than it already is… and be subsidized by the taxpayer to boot.

I hope that that rambling made some sense

Your ramblings make a lot of sense. I just think it demonstrates that the Amazon deal is a net negative.

I appreciate your explanation of the history of the Barclay’s Center and it’s effects on the area around it. I didn’t know any of that.

I think that the deal was capable of being a net positive if the thing was conducted out in the open with all the parties involved getting to put in input.

But it was the classic backroom deal that smacked of the Robert Moses era of getting ■■■■ done no matter who it hurts and that doesn’t fly anymore.

Oh come on, they got what a $2 billion gift from Cuomo? It was a blatant corporate snake oil scam.

Amazon bailed the moment they got any resistance to their scam.

Yep… that much we can agree on. If legitimate questions and concerns is enough to make them bail then they wouldn’t have been a good corporate partner in the city to start off with.

Agreed.

Hexenbiest · February 16, 2019, 6:26pm

I am not seeing anywhere the majority of people in that area didn’t want Amazon to come. I have seen the protests, but that’s fairly normal if anything the polls I saw minorities were more in favor of Amazon coming .

dantes · February 16, 2019, 6:27pm

They elected AOC. Didn’t they?

Jezcoe · February 16, 2019, 6:27pm

It wasn’t being built in her district.

Hexenbiest · February 16, 2019, 6:28pm

Yep, but I was talking about the polls I have seen which had a high minority support.

dantes · February 16, 2019, 6:29pm

Adjacent. And the adverse effects of the HQ will not be limited to a single congressional district.

But it is a barometer for the opinion, is it not?

dantes · February 16, 2019, 6:30pm

I don’t believe there are any polls done for just the region, where the adverse effects would be seen.

Jezcoe · February 16, 2019, 6:31pm

In a densly populated area, everything can be said to be adjacent to everything else.

AOC didn’t have any power in this. Micheal Gianaris did.

Blaming AOC is much much easier than understanding the history and role of the PACB… why it exists and probably why it needs to be reformed… but that is another issue.

dantes · February 16, 2019, 6:33pm

Not really. New York is huge.

I’m not blaming her for anything but her opposition to the project was clear. Im using her as a marker to demonstrate that opinion in the area had soured.

A symptom, not a cause to be simplistic.

Hexenbiest · February 16, 2019, 6:36pm

The one I was looking at the Op provided.

The biggest opposition I could see was from Manhattan. Although I am not sure how accurate the poll is.

Queens voters support 55 - 39 percent the $3 billion incentive package to attract Amazon. Opinions in other boroughs are:

Manhattan - Opposed 52 - 39 percent;
Brooklyn - Slightly opposed 46 - 40 percent;
The Bronx - Support 54 - 37 percent;
Staten Island - Divided, with 47 percent in support and 49 percent opposed.

dantes · February 16, 2019, 6:36pm

Very interesting. Thanks!

Hexenbiest · February 16, 2019, 6:37pm

Your welcome, it’s a big read you might find something in there I didn’t see, but it looks like Manhattan is were the primary opposition came from.

Jezcoe · February 16, 2019, 6:45pm

They also pulled out after meeting with labor Union leaders.

I think that that might have had something to do with it in light of there being a labor organization effort in their warehouse in the Staten Island.