2020 Election Fraud Thread (Part 2)

Politics
5479

In Arizona, GOP Bennett takes to town hall format to give further updates of the audit and the like.

Here is an excerpt and a link to the article which even talks specifically about one of the points you just made that the courts involved can only do so much in doing their jobs adhering to prevailing election laws.

Excerpt: Yet while Bennett was there to repeat what some Trump supporters can’t accept — the hand recount of nearly 2.1 million ballots in Maricopa County hewed closely to the official tally of results — he also insisted on the need for more “audits.”

“If I learned anything from the audit, it is that we need to be able to audit the elections within 10 days after the election, not 10 months,” Bennett said. “We need to be able to audit elections before they are certified.”

Most counties already audit the elections in accordance with state law, with a hand count of a random sampling of ballots days after the election to confirm the accuracy of machine counts of paper ballots. Logic and accuracy tests of the machines are also conducted before and after elections.

Republicans like Bennett, while defending the efficacy of the Senate’s widely-criticized election review, have often criticized existing Arizona procedures to ensure the accuracy of an election as ineffective.

On Tuesday, Bennett advocated for the governor to call a special session to “improve” elections. He warned that any laws passed during the next legislative session, beginning in January, won’t take effect until after the 2022 primary elections.

Ducey has already rejected calls for a special session before the end of the year.

5480

I’m expressing my opinions which is the purpose of the forum. And I am not trying to make this a personal battle. This topic intrigues me and also I think it is important to discuss/rebut/refute/affirm the facts of the election given the critical nature elections play in our society.

This is a refreshing change from months ago where I was accused of not wanting to discuss the issue of election fraud.

5481

Of course its not anything personal. Let’s discuss further.

It to me is concerning, a red flag (no pun intended), that mail in ballots were sent out in various states NOT requested like in the 2016 general election in accordance to prevailing statutes. Adding to the potential for chaos where fraud potential is heightened. How about you?

5482

I see the election rules gamesmanship played by partisans in government and I don’t like it. There are probably non-partisans that legitimately think it is a good idea to utilize mail ballots universally, but there are surely partisans that embrace it because of an advantage it offers their party.

There are several different state actions that fall within you category that we could discuss individually. Taken as a group in general I think violations of state laws should be contested, in court if need be, and the boundaries of elections officials firmed up.

I do not think a violation of election laws that does not have a material effect on the fact that a legal voter made selection of their free will implicates the vote. That is to say we do not and should not throw out votes on legal violations committed by the election overseers. The cure for these violations are sanctions on the law violators, not disenfranchisement of the voter.

If the claim is that universal mail in ballots lead to or caused vote fraud… that has not been demonstrated and it would not be difficult in my opinion to demonstrated if it in fact occurred on a large or even medium scale.

Within the bigger scope of the election fraud topic, I find that these legal violations are conflated into voter fraud and used to to imply that the election results should be set aside and I reject that.

If a state law was violated, those responsible need to be sanctioned and prevented from doin it again. But the votes cast in that system from legal voters should still count.

5483

Not talking about states with legalized universal mail in ballots. The primary concern I cited was how in the 2020 general election there were quite a few states who had not yet adopted into law a legalized mass mailing program. Instead they mostly did in under executive order of governor’s (fiat). Add to that how the (pandemic) emergency powers essentially enabled abuses where the potential for additional bad behavior could lead to blatant disregard in the enforcement of actual laws.

Another example that greatly enhanced the chances of fraud occurring was how meaningful bi-partisan observation in the counting rooms was near impossible to do their jobs most effectively. The lack of regard here showed the country that oversight was not that important in certain blue cities. Then their is the signature verification of envelopes that standards were sometimes lowered without proper approvals and oversight.

Why not address these a little more directly in your next reply…

5484

my answer applies to what I think about the effect of an illegally implemented, universal mail in voting. Not just legally implemented universal voting.

my position is: Violations of election law by those running the elections should not be tolerated.

The votes themselves should count unless shown that the voter is ineligible for some other reason. The remedy applies to those running the election, not the voter.

This far it has not been shown that the mass mailings produced fraudulent votes.

Now it looks like we are switching from your primary concern to several other concerns.

A lot to unpack there. These are all valid complaints. Thus far none of them has been shown to have resulted in cheating. You bring up many things at once but I’ll do my best to address them all:

  • “potential for additional bad behavior” even the baseline potential bad behavior is a concern. In both cases, pre-covid rules and post-covid rules, “potential” does not constitute fraud or lead to non certification. The bad behavior needs to happen for someone to claim the election is invalid. In the absence of that the dispute goes no further than undoing the illegal rule for the next election.

  • “blatant disregard for law”. This is a constant in our government. I support compelling the government to follow its own laws. Same as above though, rejecting otherwise legal votes is not the proper remedy, rather the lawbreakers should be punished and compelled to follow the law moving forward.

  • observers… observers should be allowed and in cases their vantages were limited. In other case I feel the observers where agitators and instigators of trouble and restrictions on them were justified. Violation of observer rights should be rectified and people punished. But again, this alone is not election fraud. We can only look at them case by case and decide if violation of observer rules actually impacted the count. In the noteworthy cases I have seen (Georgia in particular) the video record of the count, coupled with the recounts indicates to me that the vote count was not altered by violations of observer rights.

  • late mail… I have not seen specific claims of this outside the PA rule change. These ballots where counted separate and did not alter the result. Since they were sequestered the PA change can still be contested in court and revised election results could be published. It would not change the allocation of electors. In my personal opinion I think the mail deadline is a nitty technicality, a rule that we need to prevent an arbitrary extension of voting. As long as the numbers of late arriving votes is small, and the voter was legit and mailed them on time I see no big scandal in counting them… or discarding.

  • signatures… to be honest I don’t see much value in the signature thing in general. The distribution of mailboxes and the unpredictability of which voters would or would not notice a missing ballot is what makes mail in voting possible and resistant to organized cheating. In a specific case of cheating such as one name voting by mail and in person, or a deceased person voting the signature takes on value and can be used to verify the situation.

The witness signature is even less impactful in my opinion. I’m not sure it adds any additional legitimacy to a mailed ballot.

So this is a case of rule technicalities so I support making the counters follow the rules, but I don’t see that the rule breaking reduced the integrity of the result significantly.

A small number of stolen mail ballots (say 1000) would be readily detected by the presence of duplicate votes made by some% of those 1000 persons and that is not the case in this election.

Note: I hade to edit the first paragraph of Nick’s quote to match the spirit of an edit he made after my initial reply. I think I did right by it, but I did edit it rather than re-quote the dots he made. Hope that works out.

5485

I addressed these directly in another post, but this reply is a general response.

We have moved our focus from vote fraud to elections irregularities. I think these happen every election cycle. And in every election cycle the losing political party calls foul.

This particular election cycle is a bit different in that run-of-the mill election process disputes and being conflated with claims of widespread organized vote fraud in a very effective campaign to sow more doubt about the result than the irregularities could ever produce on their own.

So when addressing these irregularities I am also pushing back on what I see as an intentional propaganda campaign to elevate localized irregularities into a non-existent constitutional travesty.

There is a totally unfounded narrative out there that “Trump won” and that the election was invalid. These irregularities are pulled into that narrative as supporting evidence.

But these irregularities are so monumentally smaller in effect and severity in comparison to the claim that Trump won. And so much less nefarious than the outright fabrications that there are being joined with that I do tend to dismiss their impact.

5486

How does that per se cause one to pause?

5487

To the contrary, my intention was to keep sole focus on massive voter fraud concerns.

Here’s a potential challenging exercise to try (or not). How about you take a stab at this as if you are making a guest appearance as an pretend doctor on the TV Series “House”.

As a refresher here is an brief summary of how the show worked:

"House (also called House, M.D.) is an American medical drama television series that originally ran on the Fox network for eight seasons, from November 16, 2004 to May 21, 2012. The series’s main character is Dr. Gregory House (Hugh Laurie), an unconventional, misanthropic medical genius who, despite his dependence on pain medication, leads a team of diagnosticians at the fictional Princeton–Plainsboro Teaching Hospital (PPTH) in New Jersey. The series’s premise originated with Paul Attanasio, while David Shore, who is credited as creator, was primarily responsible for the conception of the title character.

The series’s executive producers included Shore, Attanasio, Attanasio’s business partner Katie Jacobs, and film director Bryan Singer. It was filmed largely in a neighborhood and business district in Los Angeles County’s Westside called Century City. The show received high critical acclaim, and was consistently one of the highest rated series in the United States.

House often clashes with his fellow physicians, including his own diagnostic team, because many of his hypotheses about patients’ illnesses are based on subtle or controversial insights. His flouting of hospital rules and procedures frequently leads him into conflict with his boss, hospital administrator and Dean of Medicine Dr. Lisa Cuddy (Lisa Edelstein). House’s only true friend is Dr. James Wilson (Robert Sean Leonard), head of the Department of Oncology."

Here in this newest episode there is a voter fraud sickness going around seemingly breaking out around the country where a rare cancer STILL CANNOT BE RULED OUT. They keep doing a battery of tests but the good doctor’s thus far can not even alleviate much of the patients pain (concerns) either with the medicines they are currently prescribing.

Now your arrive from stage left (pun intended)…

Maybe your guest appearance on the show will save the day yet.

P.S. You also get to write your own script…

5488

In what way did any changes preclude people from voting for the Republican Party candidates in the 2020 elections?

What massive voter fraud? Where is the evidence to support that claim? The only cases I have read about are a couple of people who have voted twice and from what has been reported they appear to have voted Republican.

5489

And more of the same type changes are being planned if the Dems have their way in New York. Check out this excerpt of a OAN News Report over the weekend from a rising star in the GOP illustrating election concerns in her home state of NY:

"Republican New York Rep. Elise Stefanik warns against further election irregularities caused by Democrat policies.

In an op-ed released on Breitbart News on Saturday, Stefanik warned voters in the Empire State against several provisions on their ballots this November. She claimed the measures aim to expand mail-in voting, give Democrat officials more power over a so-called “independent redistricting commission,” and register voters without time to vet their eligibility.

Stefanik pointed to the 2020 election in New York’s 22nd District, where fellow GOP Rep. Claudia Tenney (N.Y.) was delayed her victory for nearly four months over ballot counting errors. She added ballots were lost in drawers, absentee ballots were inaccurately counted and there was a breakdown in basic election integrity measures.

“This disenfranchised hundreds of thousands of New Yorkers who went without federal representation for far too long,” Stefanik wrote".

5490

Just curious, was my challenge of you acting as if you are a doctor in the process of ruling certain cancer’s out too much of an undertaking?

5491

Baseball commissioner’s office getting involved in politics is cha ching NOT.

Braves Bringing World Series to Atlanta Is ‘Greatest Irony of All’
Freddie Freeman #5 of the Atlanta Braves participates in a workout prior to the start of the World Series against the Houston Astros at Minute Maid Park in Houston, Texas, on Oct. 25. (Carmen Mandato/Getty Images)

By Marisa Herman | Tuesday, 26 October 2021 07:23 AM

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Major League Baseball’s concerns over so-called voter suppression in Georgia seem to have vanished after the Atlanta Braves clinched a spot in the World Series.

MLB Commissioner Rob Manfred was quick to punish Georgia earlier this year over proposed new voting laws by pulling the All-Star Game out of Atlanta and moving it to Denver, a switch that was immediately lambasted as politically motivated and one that was estimated to have cost small business owners upward of $100 million in potential revenue.

5492
5493

GOP getting voter from dead people.

Say it ain’t so.

WW

5494

Oh, hey everyone, Dems have already started cheating in the VA governor’s race…according to a Republican state senator…

5495

WJFN radio is licensed by MAGA Radio Networks, LLC.

5496

Check this poll out:

5497

Only goes to prove that there are a lot of quibble folks out there. It is a horrible thing that there are so many republicans out there so concerned about keeping their jobs that they promote the big lie. They are sewing doubt in our election system without a shred of evidence. And when they limit voter access or the ability to have a fair count of the votes you are going to see a huge backlash. As I have predicted before, this will all backfire on the republicans. They will rue the day that they decided to follow the orange man down the rabbit hole.

5498

To state the very obvious: opinion polls do not nor have they ever equated to proof.