My main point on this thread is (intended as) that if we removed every incentive that specifically targets EVs over Nat gas ICEs, biodiesel, fuel cells etc. then we would NOT be moving in the direction of EVs.
The EV craze (which is so big it is probably permanent) has nothing to do with EVs being better or worse than the other green alternatives. It owes it entire existence to government force.
In fact, anyplace and everyplace that force is absent, consumers, scientist etc. naturally are turning to other, non-EV alternatives.
Soy production is subsidized and making bio-desiel is not carbon neutral. Making bio-deisel from algae doesn’t rely on arable land and isn’t tied to growing seasons.
Besides, in many countries soybean production is disfavored by government.
Exports prohibited or limited, imports subject to tariff etc…
We can’t say with any certainty that “biodiesel exists because of government intervention.”
We can definitely say that with EVS.
In fact, even the EV proponents seem scared that unless we get more intervention (charging stations on every block where rich people live) EVs will die.
Bio diesel 100% exists because of government intervention. Whether it be through subsidies, pollution regulations or other incentives… it is here because of government intervention.
Heck… without government intervention leaded gas would likely still be a thing.
The point is that you don’t want to trade off food for fuel… I know that the soy products used are the cast offs… but relying on arable land when the climate is becoming more and more unpredictable is going to be costly.
Well yeah I wasn’t recommending filling our tanks with plastic bottles of vegetable oil bought one at a time.
I was underscoring that they are the same technology.
Oil from modern plants vs oil from very very old plants, your engine and your home furnace don’t know the difference.
Hydrogen combines with oxygen via fire or
Hydrogen combines with oxygen via a very expensive very intricate platinum fuel cell,
the atmosphere does not know the difference.
We have taught a generation of people that
Anything with wiz-bag technology is cool and clean and therefore a solution.
Anything the government backs is good and done because they are morally righteous vs those big old mean corporations.
Those are horrible destructive harmful mindsets to bring into matters of science and ecology.
Look around and you will find these behind most restaurants
Why? Because once run through a simple cloth filter (to get rid of bread crumbs etc.), cooking oil, even used cooking oil, runs in diesel engines and home furnaces.
If you don’t own a home… then an EV is probably not for you. Just like a Ram 3500 might not be right for you if you live in an apartment. Or a corvette might not be right if you have a family of 4.
One of the best selling vehicles in America is the Tesla Model Y. It’s fully electric. And guess what else it has?
A charging network… a massive, convenient and relatively fast network.
That is what @Jezcoe is talking about. Charging infrastructure is important. Also what Tesla did was build infrastructure around places where people tend to spend more than 5 mins at. Restaurants, malls, shopping centers.
Bottom line is don’t let those articles fool you… GM may be having issues but is mostly because they are not building a product consumers want.
In countries where they gov’t provides little or no EV-specific buckets of money (charging stations etc.)
EVs are being rejected in favor of Biodiesel and fuel cells and nat gas ICEs
In America, where such EV-specific tax dollars are through the roof, Ford and GM tried, then abandoned their EV goals
We have them in some rest areas on the NJ Turnpike. Which is a good idea. But where they’re located is not. Which is probably why I never saw anyone charging there when I worked road maintenance.
There’s a huge parking lot. The charging station is behind that. You’re about 2/10 of a mile from the building and isolated.
Natural Gas is 100% natural.
It is as natural as water.
(Whereas calling electricity from photovoltaic panels ‘natural’ is akin to saying “omelets grow on trees.”
And because CH4 is primarily hydrogen
burning natural gas in ICEs primarily oxidizes hydrogen into H2O
(Exactly precisely the same process as the intricate and expensive platinum-based fuel cells.)
Interestingly despite a huge attempt to force the market to choose other low-carbon energy. the market insists on choosing cheap clean hydrogen-based natural gas
(the stuff that is already running though pipelines in nearly every city and town in America.
Cummins Inc. predicts its new 15-liter natural gas engine designed for heavy-duty and on-highway applications could lead to a five-fold growth in customers for the alternative powertrain. It overcomes complaints about low power and torque and can run on potentially net-zero carbon renewable natural gas (RNG).
“I’m not saying that this market will go 80% natural gas. But it’s no longer a niche,” Jose Samperio, Cummins’ executive director and general manager, North America On-Highway, told FreightWaves. “It becomes more mainstream for long-haul applications.”
Cummins’ strategy of making its next-generation 15-liter engine fuel agnostic — beginning with natural gas and followed by hydrogen and other fuels — is getting attention from OEMs and large fleets.
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I know California, and maybe NY has a goal of no new cars other than EVs by 2035, but I highly doubt that comes to fruition.
The people that can’t charge at home have to plan their entire day around their car. Who wants to do that? Even if the infrastructure was there, and right now it’s not even close, you’re still planning your day around your car. That’s moving backwards.
Some want to outlaw ICEs and some just petrol ICEs.
In the current atmosphere, (government is forcing taxpayers to dump tens of billions into favoring EVs over every other solution) it matters little, but if we had a more sober government, it might.
The laws they are passing now is mostly wishful thinking. Take for example their dream scenario of everyone owning an EV. What would the rest stop look like? How big would it have to be? You can get away with some long lines getting gas. But how many charging stations would you have to have for EVs? Several 1000? People will park and go eat while their car is charging. I just don’t think it’s doable.
I do think Manufacturers should have spent more time investigating and bringing in PHEV vehicles. Plug-in hybrids kind of give you the best of both BEVs and traditional hybrids. You get enough electric range to make a daily commute (the Rav4 Prime does about 55 miles on electric alone, the Chevy Volt was even more impressive) but also incorporates a gasoline generator to extend the range to about 450 miles combined power, about the same as as a normal Rav 4 hybrid.
The issue is that too many companies simply saw them as a way to meet Pzev emissions regulations. So their availability was poor and dealers don’t advertise them very much. They are a decent price hike over normal hybrids but I think had the companies doubled down on them it could have really changed things. It’s like having a BEV but with none of the obvious drawbacks.
My girlfriend is considering a Rav 4 Prime as her next vehicle. The EV power would handle her commute and it’s battery is small enough so that it can be overnight charged on one of my external 120volt outlets. Basically for every day use we would treat it like an EV. But the gas engine would allow us to use it for trips where my Civic Si isn’t really large enough for all the luggage.
